Poor man’s guns

waksupi said:

I just checked several websites on DOM tubing. Not one mentions or recommends it's use as gun barrels.

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You won't find any reputable firm that will push it as barrel certified steel .

I wish I could find the article that I read about injuries while shooting muzzle loading guns and playing golf. More people suffered injuries by golf club heads flying off than were by muzzle loading barrels blowing up.

tenngun said:

Yes, but I have four ml three with green mountain and one with Indian barrels. Not a one has ever been proofed

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Buuuuuuuuuuuuuuut the Green Mtn. barrels are 1137 certified barrel steel for black powder arms and are extremely uniform of bore dimension and well rifled.. I've used a lot of them making muzzle loaders and black powder cartridge, target rifles.

… give it up, the same old song just ain’t playing well on this channel brother …

We all understand the issue, that that still use is not specifically rated as a ‘gun’ barrel steel. First off I would say what is the AISI definition of a gun? They could be referring to modern centerfire cartridges.

The point is, 7 premium MZL barrel makers, who have zero exploded barrels, use that steel … what would you have us Stu, shut down the entire industry until they turn over to 4140 or something?

It’s bad enough, Nancy Pelosi, and others against us, without you piling on.

bpd303 said:

I wish I could find the article that I read about injuries while shooting muzzle loading guns and playing golf. More people suffered injuries by golf club heads flying off than were by muzzle loading barrels blowing up.

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I wouldn't doubt that for a minute but then we're not golfing here we're talking about making machines that have the potential to accidentally maim or kill it's user and those in the immediate vicinity should a barrel rupture occur.

Flint62Smoothie said:

… give it up, the same old song just ain’t playing well on this channel brother …

But I am extremely glad to know that you have a mail in order gunsmith certificate versus 7 premium MZL barrels who have zero exploded barrels … likely much to your chagrin … what a loser

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Said repeatedly that hot drawn 12L14 had better shock load numbers than cold drawn but neither are close to 1137 or 4140.
A metallurgist you are not and probably never been through a gun school curriculum or you would know better than to push DOM as barrel steel .
By the way some of the best gun makers in the world never went to college or had any trade schooling.

Flint62Smoothie said:

… give it up, the same old song just ain’t playing well on this channel brother …

But I am extremely glad to know that you have a mail in order gunsmith certificate versus 7 premium MZL barrels who have zero exploded barrels … likely much to your chagrin … what a loser

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Said repeatedly that hot drawn 12L14 had better shock load numbers than cold drawn but neither are close to 1137 or 4140.
A metallurgist you are not and probably never been through a gun school curriculum or you would know better than to push DOM as barrel steel .

oldwood said:

T. Jefferson had a blacksmith shop on his Va. plantation that specialized at making all sorts of cut nails. Most every frontier blacksmith shop could make cut nails , but back in the day , perhaps the nearest blacksmith shop was 200 or more miles away. Most likely frontier era cut nails weren't cheap , either.

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They weren’t cutting nails in the blacksmith’s shop at Monticello until after 1796; they had a dedicated nailery where enslaved boys were forging the nails from rod stock- the museum there has some of the worked rods on display. You don’t see cut nails at Monticello until late ‘96, when Jefferson bought a machine which would cut blanks, and the slave boys still forged the heads on them by hand. As far as I’ve been able to learn, Jefferson’s was the first one in Virginia. As much as Ol’ Tom loved gadgets, I’m surprised he didn’t get a machine earlier, honestly.
Jay

M. De Land said:

Over loading is never safe even with certified barrel steel alloy hence the term proof testing.

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Here are a couple photos of my friends 12 L 14 .50 cal barrel that came apart at an indoor match I was participating in. It was caused by a short started patched ball ahead of a 55 grain charge of either 2 or 3 F powder. It was split in two separate places.
Click on to magnify.

M. De Land said:

Actually I've been building and repairing all manor of rifle,shotgun and hand guns continuously for about 45 years including flint and percussion !
After all that bruhaha DOM is still not certified barrel steel and should not be used for firearms !
Simple guns are fine and is personally preferred as long as they are built safely which is the whole point of my response !

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This sounds like our very own Commodore Swab

The ball was short started - user error and if they were frankly careless enough to do that then it likely was not the first time that happened. They may have even used smokeless for all we know. Could have happened to any barrel of any material. User abuse can destroy anything. Images of the bore would or could have been enlightening. I have been shooting black powder for well over 50 years - everything from home made barrels made from who knows what material to originals to repros. The only thing I will not shoot is a heavily pitted, dented damascus shotgun barrel.

M. De Land said:

Here are a couple photos of my friends 12 L 14 .50 cal barrel that came apart at an indoor match I was participating in. It was caused by a short started patched ball ahead of a 55 grain charge of either 2 or 3 F powder. It was split in two separate places.

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Exactly why I hate short starters. They have been the cause of most barrel damage I have seen.

M. De Land said:

Buuuuuuuuuuuuuuut the Green Mtn. barrels are 1137 certified barrel steel for black powder arms and are extremely uniform of bore dimension and well rifled.. I've used a lot of them making muzzle loaders and black powder target rifles.

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Did you ever proof them?
My first build used a green river barrel, now out of business
My first rifle was a Mowrey Allen and Thurber.
To the beast of my knowledge none was ever proofed

.

Snooterpup said:

Washington DC, is definitely not a state but rather a state of confusion. I was born there but long gone from there. Some years ago when purchasing a firearm from Cabelas, I encountered a problem picking which state I was born in. Washington DC was not in the list. The clerk told me to select Washington (the state). Amazed that he did not understand they are two different things.
Finally we resolved the issue with a more knowledgeable senior salesman.
Ran into the same issue trying to get an “enhanced” driver’s license, but finally was resolved as well.

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Dc it’s not a state, but it’s also not outside of the country either — it’s like a ward. They need to give all but the governmental areas back to Maryland like they did with Arlington and Virginia back in the day. Too incompetent to run its own affairs.

Maroons (Bugs Bunny lingo) can destroy anything, search the internet and you will find plenty of pictures of unmentionable firearms that have had the barrels wrecked.

I have been known to whack on a bolt knob to get a bolt open when searching for that long range load. That is a pretty good indicator you have went a little too far.

cebusey said:

The ball was short started - user error and if they were frankly careless enough to do that then it likely was not the first time that happened. They may have even used smokeless for all we know. Could have happened to any barrel of any material. User abuse can destroy anything. Images of the bore would or could have been enlightening. I have been shooting black powder for well over 50 years - everything from home made barrels made from who knows what material to originals to repros. The only thing I will not shoot is a heavily pitted, dented damascus shotgun barrel.

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I was present and know for a fact it was black powder and a short started ball. Typically a short started ball will not split or even bulge a barrel. It has about the same occurrence rate of fire arm destruction as chain fire does in a percussion revolver I would guess but is probably more frequent when folks are gabbing while shooting. It is a rather common occurrence actually with muzzle loaders especially with beginners. It generally only results in an inaccurate shot.
Sounds like your guardian angel has been busy keeping you out of harms way !

waksupi said:

Exactly why I hate short starters. They have been the cause of most barrel damage I have seen.

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That is a very good point but I still use them.

tenngun said:

Did you ever proof them?
My first build used a green river barrel, now out of business
My first rifle was a Mowrey Allen and Thurber.
To the beast of my knowledge none was ever proofed

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It's not necessary when using certified barrel steel and is the whole point.

sturmkatze said:

Dc it’s not a state, but it’s also not outside of the country either — it’s like a ward. They need to give all but the governmental areas back to Maryland like they did with Arlington and Virginia back in the day. Too incompetent to run its own affairs.

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What happened as a result of the Civil war under president Grant was the US Govt was bankrupt and we became a corporation (terms of the Bank of England bail out) instead of a constitutional republic which subjected us to the Rothchild run bank of England aka known as the City of London where this conglomerate was centered. The Vatican was also involved. These three power centers have been ever since the financial power brokers of the world. It is also why our leaders keep trying to call us a Democracy which has never in History been a stable form of government. Our founders laid out for us a much better system under the constitution which is called a constitutional Republic which means government by the rule of law determined by the people in free and fair elections. We haven't been a Constitutional Repulic since 1877 when we were sold out to the world bankers and became a corporation instead of a Constitutional Republic. That is why that from a legal stand point DC, The City of London and the Vatican are not subject to the same law as the rest of the countries they reside in.
I think the confusion to the general public is the difference between geographic legality (the physical ground they reside on) and the civil legality they enjoy.