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Ottoman Guns

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Recently I translated a bit of a book that I figured would be of interest to some here. Specifically relevant to Ottoman Guns, accessories, and typology in the Eastern regions, more specifically among the Armenians of Sasun. The neighboring Kurds and Assyrians also existed in a common cultural space, so more likely than not the bigger picture applies to them as well.

"The main weapon of the Sasunian was the Chakhmakhli (Miquelet Lock) musket. Chakhmakhli muskets, which the locals called Tv@ng, had several names according to their type. Majar, Shashkhan, Tersmi, Stampuli, Nahvlu, etc etc. They were to various degrees of long, short, or medium length. The diameters of the barrels were different as well. As such, the Stampuli's barrel was 15 millimeters in diameter, took three direms of black powder and a big ball, while the other types had barrels 12 millimeters in diameter, took from 1.5–2 direms of black powder, and were loaded with smaller balls.

The parts of the muskets were named lula (Barrel), vet or ghondagh (Butt), abrjan (The part connecting the barrel to the stock), nshanga (Sights), chakhmakh (Miquelet lock), the cushion of the tez (?), and the shish and ghayish (Gun container and sling).

Auxiliary items included the shshmat (wooden ramrod), darb@nks (cartridges), and a leather cartridge pouch, in which cartridges with enough black powder for one shot were lined up, whose openings were closed with cloth corks, so that the powder would not fall out if the user was making fast movements. The corks were tied up with leather strings to keep them secure.

To have black powder ready at hand, it was poured into a flask made of a water buffalo's horn or hard wood, which was decorated with ivory, mother of pearl, and silver thread. The backside was thick, while the front was thin and curved. A strong steel mechanism was attached, whereby upon squeezing it the hole for powder would open up, and by letting go it would close.

The direm was a cylindrical measuring device made of yellow pig iron, in which a long square-shaped metal bar was attached. The bar was moved back and forward, and stopped when it reached the level corresponding to the load taken by a given musket. The correct load was then poured into the darb@nks, and if necessary into the gun itself. 50–60 ready-made lead balls and extra flints were kept in the Gluli javd (A closed leather bag). As decoration, thin and long tassels were hung from the bottom of the javd.

When arming himself, the Sasunian would tie the cartridge pouch to his back, then the Javd bag and the powder flask would be worn from the left shoulder, ending up under the right arm. The dagger was worn on the right side of the belt, while the sword was hung on a belt from the right shoulder ending up under the left arm. All of that together made up the armament of a Sasunian."
-Eghizar Karapetyan, "Sasun: Ethnographic Materials).

Below is a photo of a man from Sasun with all his armament. You can see the details match very well with a lot of the stuff described above, although he has some extra weapons (A shield and an axe. Although the excerpt above says they were armed with only a dagger, gun, and sword the axe and shield are well documented in other literature). I also didn't get where some of the stuff like the bag is.
I shall never be able to remember half of these terms, but great info to know & pass on. I did notice what seemed a Pallaska ,cartridge box , With all that kit I bet they suffered from metal fatigue . The direm if made of yellow pig iron seems an odd choice when brass would make more sense .Apart from hitching through it once & had bother with some presumed Kurds .All these revelations are like Alice in Wonderland getting curiouser & curiuser the more she looked at it .
Thankyou & Regards Rudyard
 
Recently I translated a bit of a book that I figured would be of interest to some here. Specifically relevant to Ottoman Guns, accessories, and typology in the Eastern regions, more specifically among the Armenians of Sasun. The neighboring Kurds and Assyrians also existed in a common cultural space, so more likely than not the bigger picture applies to them as well.

"The main weapon of the Sasunian was the Chakhmakhli (Miquelet Lock) musket. Chakhmakhli muskets, which the locals called Tv@ng, had several names according to their type. Majar, Shashkhan, Tersmi, Stampuli, Nahvlu, etc etc. They were to various degrees of long, short, or medium length. The diameters of the barrels were different as well. As such, the Stampuli's barrel was 15 millimeters in diameter, took three direms of black powder and a big ball, while the other types had barrels 12 millimeters in diameter, took from 1.5–2 direms of black powder, and were loaded with smaller balls.

The parts of the muskets were named lula (Barrel), vet or ghondagh (Butt), abrjan (The part connecting the barrel to the stock), nshanga (Sights), chakhmakh (Miquelet lock), the cushion of the tez (?), and the shish and ghayish (Gun container and sling).

Auxiliary items included the shshmat (wooden ramrod), darb@nks (cartridges), and a leather cartridge pouch, in which cartridges with enough black powder for one shot were lined up, whose openings were closed with cloth corks, so that the powder would not fall out if the user was making fast movements. The corks were tied up with leather strings to keep them secure.

To have black powder ready at hand, it was poured into a flask made of a water buffalo's horn or hard wood, which was decorated with ivory, mother of pearl, and silver thread. The backside was thick, while the front was thin and curved. A strong steel mechanism was attached, whereby upon squeezing it the hole for powder would open up, and by letting go it would close.

The direm was a cylindrical measuring device made of yellow pig iron, in which a long square-shaped metal bar was attached. The bar was moved back and forward, and stopped when it reached the level corresponding to the load taken by a given musket. The correct load was then poured into the darb@nks, and if necessary into the gun itself. 50–60 ready-made lead balls and extra flints were kept in the Gluli javd (A closed leather bag). As decoration, thin and long tassels were hung from the bottom of the javd.

When arming himself, the Sasunian would tie the cartridge pouch to his back, then the Javd bag and the powder flask would be worn from the left shoulder, ending up under the right arm. The dagger was worn on the right side of the belt, while the sword was hung on a belt from the right shoulder ending up under the left arm. All of that together made up the armament of a Sasunian."
-Eghizar Karapetyan, "Sasun: Ethnographic Materials).

Below is a photo of a man from Sasun with all his armament. You can see the details match very well with a lot of the stuff described above, although he has some extra weapons (A shield and an axe. Although the excerpt above says they were armed with only a dagger, gun, and sword the axe and shield are well documented in other literature). I also didn't get where some of the stuff like the bag is.
Nice info! And interesting connections with surrounding languages in some of the terms. Çakmaklı/Chakhmakhli means "with flint/flintlock" in Turkish, çakmak both meaning lock, flintstone and (today) lighter. Ghondagh sounds like kundak, which means stock in Turkish (it also means a baby's swaddle, funny enough). Ghayish sounds like kayış, which means sling in Turkish as well. Not sure about the etymological roots of these words. Nshanga sounds like nişangah, which I think was taken from Persian (-gah means place of in Persian, and nişan means sign, but as a verb, to aim).

I also wonder if the Stampuli is a different pronounciation of Istanbuli, and if Tv@ng has any relationship with "tüfeng". Either way, good to know, and nice photograph.
 
Avto: Thanks so much for the photo and definitions/explanations. Very comprehensive. Of course, I'll never remember all of them, so I printed your information to keep in my library. Again, thank you.

Rick
 
I shall never be able to remember half of these terms, but great info to know & pass on. I did notice what seemed a Pallaska ,cartridge box , With all that kit I bet they suffered from metal fatigue . The direm if made of yellow pig iron seems an odd choice when brass would make more sense .Apart from hitching through it once & had bother with some presumed Kurds .All these revelations are like Alice in Wonderland getting curiouser & curiuser the more she looked at it .
Thankyou & Regards Rudyard
Palaska: I notice in the photo that Avto just posted that the small metal box is square shaped. I believe the square shaped boxes were used to house a small copy of the Koran. What we typically refer to the Palaski, for carrying pre-made cartridges are shaped like the two in Cyten's #766 photo/post above. And here.
Many years ago I tried an experiment at the shooting range. I wanted to see how useful these little brass containers were for carrying and retrieving pre-made cartridges. The little containers hold 4-5 pre-made cartridges each. So I made up 5 cartridges, put them in one of the containers, and strapped the belt around my waist. I also tied a suma rod (pistol ramrod) around my neck. The purpose of the experiment was to see if the little containers with the separate rod actually aided in faster reloading of the pistol. My conclusion was that it did indeed speed the reloading time. Could easily reload in half of a minute. So the separate suma rod and palaski worked well together. Made it easy to understand their popularity.

Rick

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Palaska: I notice in the photo that Avto just posted that the small metal box is square shaped. I believe the square shaped boxes were used to house a small copy of the Koran. What we typically refer to the Palaski, for carrying pre-made cartridges are shaped like the two in Cyten's #766 photo/post above. And here.
Many years ago I tried an experiment at the shooting range. I wanted to see how useful these little brass containers were for carrying and retrieving pre-made cartridges. The little containers hold 4-5 pre-made cartridges each. So I made up 5 cartridges, put them in one of the containers, and strapped the belt around my waist. I also tied a suma rod (pistol ramrod) around my neck. The purpose of the experiment was to see if the little containers with the separate rod actually aided in faster reloading of the pistol. My conclusion was that it did indeed speed the reloading time. Could easily reload in half of a minute. So the separate suma rod and palaski worked well together. Made it easy to understand their popularity.

Rick

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I never dreamed as I started this thread that it would take us all down an' Alice in Wonderland 'rabbit hole. But very pleased it has linked us all to this, By most Western standards' Left Field 'aspect of firearms & related items. If it was the enterprising Major Nowel Corry who by being obliged to haul away hundreds of stored presumed confiscated barrels from Iranian Police stations in the 70s (He only really wanted Persian Artillery Lugers )Most all of these often very old barrels being put to percussion in a most irreverant crudity . But without his unwitting aid I & I expect others Like Puckka Bundook might never been able to preserve or use such battered gems at two or 3 pounds apiece '. Kismet?' . Fate for sure has conspired to lead us together with the help of Alice of course .
Regards & Salutations to us all . Rudyard
 
Nice info! And interesting connections with surrounding languages in some of the terms. Çakmaklı/Chakhmakhli means "with flint/flintlock" in Turkish, çakmak both meaning lock, flintstone and (today) lighter. Ghondagh sounds like kundak, which means stock in Turkish (it also means a baby's swaddle, funny enough). Ghayish sounds like kayış, which means sling in Turkish as well. Not sure about the etymological roots of these words. Nshanga sounds like nişangah, which I think was taken from Persian (-gah means place of in Persian, and nişan means sign, but as a verb, to aim).

I also wonder if the Stampuli is a different pronounciation of Istanbuli, and if Tv@ng has any relationship with "tüfeng". Either way, good to know, and nice photograph.
Thanks everyone, glad it was useful info :).

Yes, the words are mostly Turkish in origin but rendered according to local pronunciation. The @ in tv@ng is pronounced as Turkish "i" without a dot on top of it.

Some more interesting pictures showing muzzleloaders from this general cultural region (Notice the similarity of the costumes and weapons):

1: Kurdish Agha from Van
2: Assyrian men from Northern Iran
3: Assyrians from Mardin Province
 

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I never dreamed as I started this thread that it would take us all down an' Alice in Wonderland 'rabbit hole. But very pleased it has linked us all to this, By most Western standards' Left Field 'aspect of firearms & related items. If it was the enterprising Major Nowel Corry who by being obliged to haul away hundreds of stored presumed confiscated barrels from Iranian Police stations in the 70s (He only really wanted Persian Artillery Lugers )Most all of these often very old barrels being put to percussion in a most irreverant crudity . But without his unwitting aid I & I expect others Like Puckka Bundook might never been able to preserve or use such battered gems at two or 3 pounds apiece '. Kismet?' . Fate for sure has conspired to lead us together with the help of Alice of course .
Regards & Salutations to us all . Rudyard
LOL. By now, the "Ottoman Guns" Thread is book length. It's sure been a fun ride, and still going. Personally, I've learned much information. Also, it has been a great pleasure to welcome members from - or very familiar with - these Eastern regions adding great content.

Rick
 
LOL. By now, the "Ottoman Guns" Thread is book length. It's sure been a fun ride, and still going. Personally, I've learned much information. Also, it has been a great pleasure to welcome members from - or very familiar with - these Eastern regions adding great content.

Rick
I agree entirely,
Regards Rudyard
 
I just lost an auction for a Makedonka, so I thought I’d post a little bit of info on them, lol. Here are a couple pages from the Russian book “Турецкое Оружие” (Turkish Weapons) by E.G. Astvatsaturyan that I’ve passed through google translate.
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The book is available to read for free online HERE, though it is in Russian, there are a lot of interesting photos. I have got translated the 4 chapters regarding Firearms

The book is a study of the arms in the Russian State Museum collection, so it is documented where and when the pieces were acquired and helps with identifying Shishane styles from different centuries.
I've become interested in the equipment and methods used to load these guns. I had a look at this book and I used Google translate to find some info on pages 293-295.

On page 295 the author describes how the spouts of Ottoman powder flasks have a "bone latch" that slides back and forth to open or close a gate to the spout to only allow a measured amount of gunpowder to go into the gun. I think this is referencing the powder flask shown on page 293 (shown below, and cyten has shown this image before) because it has a part sticking out the side which looks like it's made of bone. It doesn't look like it has a spring to return the latch. I've seen this system shown on some flasks shown on this forum, but I've also seen horns on this forum of this style without the latch, so I don't think the author's description is universal.

I also saw these drawings of a janissary loading a musket (I think cyten showed these images). I noticed that the janissary was loading his gun directly from the horn, and he's also using a funnel. I'm guessing that his horn has the latch system to load a measured amount of powder. I am unsure if soldiers (of any place or time period) went into battle using their powder flasks without measuring the amount of powder they put in. On one hand, it's simple and fast. On the other hand, it's inconsistent and dangerous.
Also, page 295 makes it clear that "natruska/natruka" means a priming flask.
 

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Hi Conrad

From what I've been able to learn over the years is that the style of powder containers used throughout much of the Ottoman Empire varied in both style and construction materials. Although some styles seemed to be more prominent in certain regions. Possibly due to the flask style seeming to originate in that region.
I probably have posted some of these flasks from my collection in past posts on this Thread. But can do so again if interested.

Rick
 
@AvtoGaz is incredibly knowledgeable on the Armenian arms and I thank you for sharing and look forward to more!

On page 295 the author describes how the spouts of Ottoman powder flasks have a "bone latch" that slides back and forth to open or close a gate to the spout to only allow a measured amount of gunpowder to go into the gun...
It doesn't look like it has a spring to return the latch. I've seen this system shown on some flasks shown on this forum, but I've also seen horns on this forum of this style without the latch, so I don't think the author's description is universal.

I also saw these drawings of a janissary loading a musket (I think cyten showed these images). I noticed that the janissary was loading his gun directly from the horn, and he's also using a funnel. I'm guessing that his horn has the latch system to load a measured amount of powder. I am unsure if soldiers (of any place or time period) went into battle using their powder flasks without measuring the amount of powder they put in.
I agree with Rick, in that the style of horn/flask varied throughout the ages and regions. Also, that illustration of the Janissary I believe was drawn by the author, or specifically for the book, not an official manual of arms ( I dont know if one remains in existence )

Now that the jet lag is over and I've had some time to settle in, I managed to get the Ottoman guns out for a group photo

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A few new faces thanks to some folks here letting them go to a loving home. The Boyliya is missing its hammer/**** but I'm having someone work on that for me in Bulgaria.
Just missing a Dzeferdar, Makedonka, and Rasak... maybe one day!
 
Hi Conrad

From what I've been able to learn over the years is that the style of powder containers used throughout much of the Ottoman Empire varied in both style and construction materials. Although some styles seemed to be more prominent in certain regions. Possibly due to the flask style seeming to originate in that region.
I probably have posted some of these flasks from my collection in past posts on this Thread. But can do so again if interested.

Rick
Thanks for the offer Rick, but I've actually already read all 791 replies to this thread! I've lurked this forum for a long time.

Another thought: one of my favorite youtube channels is Capandball. As a guy from Hungary, he has done a lot of videos about the guns of the Habsburg/Austro-Hungarian Empire. He has talked a bit about the Ottoman-Habsburg wars, so I am desperately hoping that one day he will do a video about Ottoman guns from these wars.
 
Another thought: one of my favorite youtube channels is Capandball. As a guy from Hungary, he has done a lot of videos about the guns of the Habsburg/Austro-Hungarian Empire. He has talked a bit about the Ottoman-Habsburg wars, so I am desperately hoping that one day he will do a video about Ottoman guns from these wars.
seconded! His videos on the western side (landsknecht arquebus, wheellocks, matchlock ballistics) of the conflicts have been great!
 
Hi Conrad

I "Third" Yours and TobJohn's suggestion.

Hard to believe you covered the entire Ottoman Thread. LOL As I mentioned in a previous post, by now it's book length. LOL But I believe we have gathered a lot of information. And the Thread has generated interest from newer members that actually reside (or are very familiar with) the Eastern history of these guns.

Maybe the suggestion can be made to the Moderator of the Cap N Ball series on YouTube ? Anyone know his actual email address ?

Rick
 
Hi Conrad

I "Third" Yours and TobJohn's suggestion.

Hard to believe you covered the entire Ottoman Thread. LOL As I mentioned in a previous post, by now it's book length. LOL But I believe we have gathered a lot of information. And the Thread has generated interest from newer members that actually reside (or are very familiar with) the Eastern history of these guns.

Maybe the suggestion can be made to the Moderator of the Cap N Ball series on YouTube ? Anyone know his actual email address ?

Rick
IIRC, someone here knows him in real life.
 
seconded! His videos on the western side (landsknecht arquebus, wheellocks, matchlock ballistics) of the conflicts have been great!
Ide' Third it ' if you can have one? & I've not seen his ones on that topic .With all these 'Thirds' weve nearly got a whole quarter !
Rudyard's appreciation
 
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IIRC, someone here knows him in real life.
I am in contact with him and will try to convince him! It is interesting that they have a much bigger appreciation for American Old West guns out there than for their own historical arms, in my experience. I remember talking to a shop owner a few years ago who was very bored with the discussion of Eastern guns and told me he had a "REAL" gun to show me and discuss. Went to the back and brought out an original Colt Lightning Rifle. Grass is greener situation, eh?
Some may remember that I found a book that was supposedly for the instruction of the use of the Shishane. A bit pricey and written in Arabic script, I wasn't sure it was as advertised. I wrote to the seller, who provided me with some additional photos, which I in turn, ran by a colleague who is fluent. Turns out it is for the operation of a certain kind of cannon, though it is indeed called "Shishane" in the book
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REF: Post #798 above.

Hi Cyten. I hope he does agree. Would be fun and interesting.
I've always found it curious over the many years that collectors of "Eastern" type arms were so fond of their blades and armor, but the guns left as somewhat of an after thought. There never seemed to be any interest in the guns beyond their decoration. As I've previously mentioned, I can remember when antique gun dealers would only take Eastern market guns on a consignment basis. Not any more. It seems in just the last decade or so, the sales/prices for Eastern guns has gone up in price considerably.

Glad you found out the true contents of the book.

Rick
 
Hello ALL

Thanks to the assistance of Cyten while traveling in Bulgaria, he was able to connect me with a two of the local craftsmen in the area. Here are my new holsters (I believe one term is Kuburluk ?) to go along with my original Balkan pistols. Since the two pistols are not an actual "pair", I ordered two single holsters versus one double holster. Along with a new cartridge box. The workmanship is excellent. The interior of the two holsters is lined. like the originals, and includes the small flap pocket to carry extra flints. The cartridge pouch includes the wood block that will hold 9 pre-made cartridges. The exterior decorative stitching is done in the traditional manner. The design of the holsters will accommodate almost any pistol length. As well, the pistol can be inside the holster with the lock in any position. All together, top quality at a reasonable cost. Very happy with purchase.
The two original Balkan pistols have tuned locks and .55 caliber barrel liners by Bobby Hoyt.

Rick

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