Custom Revolvers

45D · Sep 12, 2024

Here's a new offering for the more "discriminating" shooter/ collector . . . called by Colt the "Screwless Frame".

The action screws are replaced with custom oversized pins. The oversized pins introduce a more accurate operation of the action parts and generally remove the need for shims. Moreover, they tend to remove the "warp" found in the factory screws/ screw pins.

Mike

Smokerr · Sep 12, 2024

Most interesting

M. De Land · Sep 13, 2024

45D said:
Here's a new offering for the more "discriminating" shooter/ collector . . . called by Colt the "Screwless Frame".

View attachment 348126

The action screws are replaced with custom oversized pins. The oversized pins introduce a more accurate operation of the action parts and generally remove the need for shims. Moreover, they tend to remove the "warp" found in the factory screws/ screw pins.

Mike

So the pins ride the thread tops of the frame on the opposite side or are they reamed out?
I notice the grip straps don't fit the frame very well at the top.

Eutycus · Sep 13, 2024

How is the revolver dismantled? Just gently drive the pins out with a brass punch maybe?

45D · Sep 13, 2024

M. De Land said:
So the pins ride the thread tops of the frame on the opposite side or are they reamed out?

The trigger / bolt pins locate where the original screw head and pin section ride ( thread section doesn't apply). The hammer pin does locate the small end on the minor dia. of the threads and the head of the pin locates in place of the screw head.

M. De Land said:
I notice the grip straps don't fit the frame very well at the top.

Thanks for noticing . . .

Mike

45D · Sep 13, 2024

Eutycus said:
How is the revolver dismantled? Just gently drive the pins out with a brass punch maybe?

No sir, the "Action pins" are held in place with basically interference pins that are tapered on the end. Just gently pushing the Action pins out (toothpick or whatever) will move the interference pins out of the way. The mounted back strap and trigger guard keep the interference pins in position ( as normal). To reinstall, just push the a.pins in and push the i.pins down to lock them in place. It's faster and no buggered screw slots.

Mike

Ed C. · Sep 13, 2024

Wow, I'm having a hard time imagining how these pins are secured. If you have one of these apart in the future I'd love to see some photos. Ok, I think I got it. The "i" pins are in holes drilled in the frame under the trigger guard and backstrap at a 90 deg. angle to the action pins to hold them in place and the "i" pins are held in place by the trigger guard and backstrap?

45D · Sep 13, 2024

Ed C. said:
Wow, I'm having a hard time imagining how these pins are secured. If you have one of these apart in the future I'd love to see some photos. Ok, I think I got it. The "i" pins are in holes drilled in the frame under the trigger guard and backstrap at a 90 deg. angle to the action pins to hold them in place and the "i" pins are held in place by the trigger guard and backstrap?

Yessir, you got it!!
I'll post a pic.

Mike

M. De Land · Sep 13, 2024

45D said:
Yessir, you got it!!
I'll post a pic.

Mike

Thanks for showing the pins as I love to learn new things at least new to me. I think I still prefer the screw slots and threads personally with proper fitting bits.
Oh the strap corners not fitting the frame is just something either one of us would mention if we were sitting across from each other and looking the revolver over.

SDSmlf · Sep 13, 2024

45D said:
Here's a new offering for the more "discriminating" shooter/ collector . . . called by Colt the "Screwless Frame".

View attachment 348126

The action screws are replaced with custom oversized pins. The oversized pins introduce a more accurate operation of the action parts and generally remove the need for shims. Moreover, they tend to remove the "warp" found in the factory screws/ screw pins.

Mike

Saw a ‘Screwless’ frame Colt SA years ago (maybe 20 years) and as I recall the there were no visible screws on the sides of the frame. Don’t know if Colt made it without holes or if the holes were welded up. This example appears to be a standard Colt frame with press fit pins, not the ‘Screwless’ frame Colt I saw, so I have to call BS on this one.

J.B. Arthur · Sep 13, 2024

Smokerr said:
Most interesting

Indeed

Ed C. · Sep 13, 2024

This was very interesting to me. I learned that there were Colt screwless frame revolvers made that did have the pins welded over in order to facilitate very fine engraving work. Show guns. You could shoot them but not made for disassembly.

Extraordinary-Dennis-Kies-Engraved-Colt-SAA-Cal-45-LC-built-on-Rare-Colt-Factory-Screwless-Fra...jpg

45D · Sep 13, 2024

SDSmlf said:
Saw a ‘Screwless’ frame Colt SA years ago (maybe 20 years) and as I recall the there were no visible screws on the sides of the frame. Don’t know if Colt made it without holes or if the holes were welded up. This example appears to be a standard Colt frame with press fit pins, not the ‘Screwless’ frame Colt I saw, so I have to call BS on this one.

Well, if you would actually read what I posted, I explained what you were seeing in the picture ( so nobody is trying pull anything "over" on anybody). Yes, they are PINS not SCREWS ( that actually means the action screws have been replaced with pins . . . so, NO SCREWS !!

). Just like the "Screwless Colts" they too just have action pins, not screws . . . and they don't own the word "Screwless".
Some I've seen were welded up but I don't care to go that far . . .
The whole point for me is for mechanical accuracy, not for the engraver to have an "undisturbed" canvas to work with (which was the original intent).
Btw, as I posted above, the pins gently push in / out . . . so, they aren't "pressed in" . . . that'd be BS . . .

Mike

Correction, I don't think Colt ever called them anything as I belive all the "Screwless Frame" revolvers were commissioned by privateers such as Tiffany.
So, since I can't edit my original post I'm doing it here.
Full disclosure: the revolver pictured is an Uberti copy of an 1860 Army ( not an original) . The main point of the picture is to show the pins that replace the action screws. And since they aren't screws, it is correctly called Screwless.
Just so there's no confusion . . .

oldschoolhunter55 · Sep 13, 2024

45D said:
No sir, the "Action pins" are held in place with basically interference pins that are tapered on the end. Just gently pushing the Action pins out (toothpick or whatever) will move the interference pins out of the way. The mounted back strap and trigger guard keep the interference pins in position ( as normal). To reinstall, just push the a.pins in and push the i.pins down to lock them in place. It's faster and no buggered screw slots.

Mike

thank you for explaining. never seen that before.

oldschoolhunter55 · Sep 13, 2024

45D said:
Here's a new offering for the more "discriminating" shooter/ collector . . . called by Colt the "Screwless Frame".

View attachment 348126

The action screws are replaced with custom oversized pins. The oversized pins introduce a more accurate operation of the action parts and generally remove the need for shims. Moreover, they tend to remove the "warp" found in the factory screws/ screw pins.

Mike

wow. that's fancy.bet it takes a lot of time and precise measurements.

45D · Sep 14, 2024

Ed C. said:
This was very interesting to me. I learned that there were Colt screwless frame revolvers made that did have the pins welded over in order to facilitate very fine engraving work. Show guns. You could shoot them but not made for disassembly.
View attachment 348383

I talked with Jim Martin about these years ago. The welded up Colts used drop in pins for the bolt and trigger. They were held in place with set screws (where I put interference pins). I couldn't understand how you could install a hammer (with hand attached) from the rear with the pin installed. But I believe it's doable now . . .

Anyway, Ed C., that is a great looking revolver in your pic. If you "grow it" to the max, you can ever so slightly see the bolt and trigger screwhead lines and the "tell tale" for the hammer screw is right through the end of the wolf's nose . It's an excellent technique by the engraver!!! ( where are the slots?!!!! )

Mike

45D · Sep 14, 2024

oldschoolhunter55 said:
wow. that's fancy.bet it takes a lot of time and precise measurements.

Thanks !
Time, steady hand and redneck ability!!!

Mike

SDSmlf · Sep 14, 2024

45D said:
Well, if you would actually read what I posted, I explained what you were seeing in the picture ( so nobody is trying pull anything "over" on anybody). Yes, they are PINS not SCREWS ( that actually means the action screws have been replaced with pins . . . so, NO SCREWS !! ). Just like the "Screwless Colts" they too just have action pins, not screws . . . and they don't own the word "Screwless".
Some I've seen were welded up but I don't care to go that far . . .
The whole point for me is for mechanical accuracy, not for the engraver to have an "undisturbed" canvas to work with (which was the original intent).
Btw, as I posted above, the pins gently push in / out . . . so, they aren't "pressed in" . . . that'd be BS . . .

Mike

Ok, so you are redefining what something called by Colt as the "Screwless Frame" years ago is. Missed that. Now I have to wonder how to distinguish your version vs the older Colt version with no visible screws or pins that I saw over 20 years ago that was called a Screwless Frame by Colt at the time? Wonder how Colt didn’t know someone using non thread pins in reproductions years in the future had the name already reserved?

Come on, what you are showing is not even close to what was called by Colt the ‘Screwless Frame’. Though non-slotted threadless pin Colt style frame’ might work.

45D said:
Here's a new offering for the more "discriminating" shooter/ collector . . . called by Colt the "Screwless Frame".

Ed C. · Sep 14, 2024

45D said:
I talked with Jim Martin about these years ago. The welded up Colts used drop in pins for the bolt and trigger. They were held in place with set screws (where I put interference pins). I couldn't understand how you could install a hammer (with hand attached) from the rear with the pin installed. But I believe it's doable now . . .

Anyway, Ed C., that is a great looking revolver in your pic. If you "grow it" to the max, you can ever so slightly see the bolt and trigger screwhead lines and the "tell tale" for the hammer screw is right through the end of the wolf's nose . It's an excellent technique by the engraver!!! ( where are the slots?!!!! )

Mike

Yup, I see what you are talking about. So evidently this is not one that has been welded over but very well done nonetheless. I am more of a shooter so I doubt I'd ever cough up the $25,000-$30,000 for a gun I'd never shoot. Until I saw the price on those for a few minutes I thought it might be nice to have one. Ha!

CyrusP · Sep 14, 2024

SDSmlf said:
Ok, so you are redefining what something called by Colt as the "Screwless Frame" years ago is. Missed that. Now I have to wonder how to distinguish your version vs the older Colt version with no visible screws or pins that I saw over 20 years ago that was called a Screwless Frame by Colt at the time? Wonder how Colt didn’t know someone using non thread pins in reproductions years in the future had the name already reserved?

Come on, what you are showing is not even close to what was called by Colt the ‘Screwless Frame’. Though non-slotted threadless pin Colt style frame’ might work.

If you can’t distinguish between a Colt SAA and a cap and ball Colt, you might need to go back to basics.

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