Did military blunderbusses use buckshot paper cartridges?

I've been trying to find out if any 18th century military ever made pure buckshot paper cartridges for blunderbusses (buck and ball cartridges are another discussion).

The only buckshot cartridges I know of for certain are the ones made by the US military in the early-mid 19th century for the .69 caliber muskets.

I found this blunderbuss/musketoon interesting:
https://royalarmouries.org/collection/object/object-367
It was made around 1781 for British light dragoons, so it was seen as a good alternative to a cavalry carbine. Since cavalry carbines used round ball paper cartridges, I can't see why they would ever give up the convenience of paper cartridges in general for blunderbusses. Also, this blunderbuss has a slight duckbill muzzle, which implies that it was intended to use buckshot.

Second question.
Military blunderbuss? Sounds very unusual.

"Also, this blunderbuss has a slight duckbill muzzle, which implies that it was intended to use buckshot."

Not to question your assumption but I do wonder how you arrived at it.

Flintandsteel said:

Second question.
Military blunderbuss? Sounds very unusual.

Click to expand...

Common in Royal Navy and artillery units.

Conrad von Hotzendorf said:

I've been trying to find out if any 18th century military ever made pure buckshot paper cartridges for blunderbusses (buck and ball cartridges are another discussion).

The only buckshot cartridges I know of for certain are the ones made by the US military in the early-mid 19th century for the .69 caliber muskets.

I found this blunderbuss/musketoon interesting:
https://royalarmouries.org/collection/object/object-367
It was made around 1781 for British light dragoons, so it was seen as a good alternative to a cavalry carbine. Since cavalry carbines used round ball paper cartridges, I can't see why they would ever give up the convenience of paper cartridges in general for blunderbusses. Also, this blunderbuss has a slight duckbill muzzle, which implies that it was intended to use buckshot.

Click to expand...

I have seen a letter in the RN museum at Portsmouth wherein a Captain newly appointed to take command of a RN ship wrote to the ship's officers, outlining things he expected to be done prior to his arrival several weeks in the future. Re the ship's Gunner, he was to make up (I cannot recall numbers but total was several thousand) "musket, pistol and blunderbuss" cartridges. Since I have a repo RN blunderbuss, I was very disappointed that the CO's letter did not specify how the cartridges were to be made up; but it only seems reasonable the the professional Gunner knew what was standard & did not need micro management. My assumption is something like todays 0 or 00 buckshot, the quantity depending on the Bore of the buss.

Not sure how correct, but here is a source for buckshot loads for your buss.
https://veteranarms.com/shop/muskets/69-75-Caliber-Buckshot-20-Rounds-Kit-p252844231


ADK Bigfoot

Conrad von Hotzendorf said:

I've been trying to find out if any 18th century military ever made pure buckshot paper cartridges for blunderbusses (buck and ball cartridges are another discussion).

Click to expand...

Well the US Military sure did, see the attached article! Since we essentially copied most things British (at least of which they did 'right') I'd presume that the Brits did too.

hawkeye2 said:

"Also, this blunderbuss has a slight duckbill muzzle, which implies that it was intended to use buckshot."

Not to question your assumption but I do wonder how you arrived at it.

Click to expand...

Read the attached PDF article, especially where the quote below came from and then think and reason ... of WHAT VALUE would there ever be for a 'duck billed' b'buss that shot a solid shot load?

"The oval muzzle barrel was tested more times than the other barrels because of testing of paper buckshot cartridges. The width of the shot patterns made by the oval muzzle barrel was consistently wider than the height of the pattern."

Flint62Smoothie said:

of WHAT VALUE would there ever be for a 'duck billed' b'buss that shot a solid shot load?

Click to expand...

Yeah this is basically what I meant. A duckbill muzzle affects the spread of the pellets, so it should be used with pellets.

I think the "Model 1840 .69 caliber Flintlock Musketoon", refers to a carbine manufactured by Springfield Armory, without a flared muzzle.
The info in these paragraphs came from source #13 of the article, Small Arms and Ammunition in the United States Service (1956) by Berkeley R. Lewis, page 219.
I found an online copy of it on the Smithsonian website:
https://repository.si.edu/handle/10088/22919
but unfortunately I think the website is down for maintenance right now. In Myths of the Blunderbuss, I thought "a 1780 Brown Bess" just meant a Brown Bess manufactured in 1780. However, I think page 219 of Small Arms and Ammunition in the United States Service was saying that in 1780, the US military was using buckshot cartridges for Brown Besses. This is around the same time as that British Dragoon blunderbuss I showed.
Now I think we can say that buckshot cartridges are at least as old as the American Revolution.

Coot said:

I have seen a letter in the RN museum at Portsmouth wherein a Captain newly appointed to take command of a RN ship wrote to the ship's officers, outlining things he expected to be done prior to his arrival several weeks in the future. Re the ship's Gunner, he was to make up (I cannot recall numbers but total was several thousand) "musket, pistol and blunderbuss" cartridges. Since I have a repo RN blunderbuss, I was very disappointed that the CO's letter did not specify how the cartridges were to be made up; but it only seems reasonable the the professional Gunner knew what was standard & did not need micro management. My assumption is something like todays 0 or 00 buckshot, the quantity depending on the Bore of the buss.

Click to expand...

Interesting, do you know what year this letter was written?

The point about the paper cartridge buckshot load for the musketoons is that those same loads were also used in whatever blunderbusses they fielded.

Civilian blunderbuss were loaded with buck. We have an autopsy of an English Lord who was killed in his carriage by a hired killer.
In places blunderbuss(i?) were used they were used for their sawed off shotgun effect. I would think they would be loaded with shot

Flint62Smoothie said:

The point about the paper cartridge buckshot load for the musketoons is that those same loads were also used in whatever blunderbusses they fielded.

Click to expand...

I don’t think the US ever fully (officially) adopted any blunderbusses, but there are a few martial examples out there from about the time frame for the 1812 war, mostly with navy connections. So the pertinent documentation could have been destroyed if they were ordered.

I forget where I read it, but General Washington asked for some from the Continental Congress but was denied.

Conrad von Hotzendorf said:

I've been trying to find out if any 18th century military ever made pure buckshot paper cartridges for blunderbusses (buck and ball cartridges are another discussion).

The only buckshot cartridges I know of for certain are the ones made by the US military in the early-mid 19th century for the .69 caliber muskets.

I found this blunderbuss/musketoon interesting:
https://royalarmouries.org/collection/object/object-367
It was made around 1781 for British light dragoons, so it was seen as a good alternative to a cavalry carbine. Since cavalry carbines used round ball paper cartridges, I can't see why they would ever give up the convenience of paper cartridges in general for blunderbusses. Also, this blunderbuss has a slight duckbill muzzle, which implies that it was intended to use buckshot.

Click to expand...

They were mostly a Naval thing, I'd think. And being military, probably would have used the common cartridges; after all, the blunderbuss is really just a .75 cal. short musket with a funnel shape muzzle to speed up loading. No nuts, bolts, or springs would have been dumped in there like the cartoons!