My First Black Powder Firearm!

GLOCKer · Oct 18, 2024

I'm kind of moving this discussion over here from the "Firearm Identification" sub-form because she's been identified.

And it's been deluver to my house today by USPS!

I'm so excited to finally own a cap and ball revolver after wanting one for well over a decade. I scored this on for $84 and shipping from an online auction.

Thanks ro this forum, it's been identified as a RAG - Rigarmi 1851 replica probably made in 1972. It seems to be only missing one part - the wedge retaining screw.

It function tests mostly fine, and seems to have a slight, occasional timing issue. The action also feels dirty and gummed up a little. The outside of the gun has been wiped down and oiled, but when I took the barrel and cylinder off, there was a lot of carbon buildup.

Also, when I let the hammer down (gently!) The hammer seems to be pushed off the niple by some spring tension.

I'm considering a total take down of this gun for a deep cleaning. If I do that, I'll touch up the bluing and clean up the brass before reassembly.

I'm really excited to learn how to load and shoot it!

Smokerr · Oct 18, 2024

Good luck with it. A take down and deep cleaning would be the first thing. Lube up and assemble and see what the action feels like. Then decide from there where to go with things. Do any polish work last as you may be back in a time or two.

I am not up on the open top Colt variations, Replica of a Dragoon or ?

smokepolehall · Oct 18, 2024

It's more along the Navy .36 model, having a brass frame don't shoot heavier or hot loads from it. 15-20 gr of 3F is plenty to enjoy it.

wiscoaster · Oct 18, 2024

Welcome to the black powder muzzleloader rabbit hole. You'll find there's no bottom and things get even more interesting the deeper you go. Bon voyage on your journey!! Be sure to stick around and tell us your black powder tales.

CyrusP · Oct 18, 2024

Just my preference; I love how that brass looks as is. Too shiny makes it look “off “ somehow. That gun looks like it’s been there and done that and that’s a good thing.

Jappo · Oct 19, 2024

Those are called the "Accidental Confederate Revolver Schneider and Glassic"
If it didn't have the engraved cylinder.
Here's an interesting read.
https://www.capandballrevolvers.com/schneider-glassick-the-accidental-replica-revolver

Sun City · Oct 19, 2024

According to folks smarter than me the brass frame ain't the way to go. But you got a shooter so do some reading and let 'er rip! Lots of stuff on the net about this. Look up Blackie Thomas Percussion Revolver!

CyrusP · Oct 19, 2024

I’d say keep the loads on the light side for accuracy, frugality and long life and you’ll enjoy her for years.

GLOCKer · Oct 19, 2024

Pointing this down range, which direction does the wedge go in?

I just bought a Pietta screw that fit, but I destroyed it trying to get the wedge back out.

Is it supposed to be wedge right to left?

The wedge was installed left to right when I put the screw in.

wiscoaster · Oct 19, 2024

Wedge is left to right, with groove on top; forward is muzzle end.

Jappo · Oct 19, 2024

Goes in from the screw side.
And you don't have to drive it all the way in. Just far enough for the spring on the wedge to show. If you have too much cylinder to barrel gap, drive it in a little more till you barely have a gap. Use a plastic hammer or a brass punch. If you have a hard plastic screwdriver handle that will work.

Jappo · Oct 19, 2024

Another thing, check to see if the arbor might be loose. Some of these old brass frame revolvers tend to do that. Especially if the wedge has been driven all the way through. The arbor pulls on the brass threads, which are softer. I've seen a couple like that. The wedge was so loose you could just touch it and it would go in. I seen what the problem was. The arbor had stripped the threads out.

wiscoaster · Oct 19, 2024

Jappo said:
Goes in from the screw side.

Thanks, better description than mine, and unlikely to be misinterpreted. :thumb:

Jappo · Oct 19, 2024

wiscoaster said:
Thanks, better description than mine, and unlikely to be misinterpreted.

Figured it be simpler after I thought about it for awhile.
Another thing, if the screw drags on the wedge spring, that causes it to bind also. That can be cured to use a smaller head screw. Or chuck it on a drill and turn it down with a file.

GLOCKer · Oct 19, 2024

Ughhhh. Thanks for the replies folks.
I recieved my revolvers with the wedge inserted from right to left. So I put the screw in and had to destroy it to get the wedge back out.

wiscoaster · Oct 19, 2024

GLOCKer said:
Ughhhh. Thanks for the replies folks.
I recieved my revolvers with the wedge inserted from right to left. So I put the screw in and had to destroy it to get the wedge back out.

Ummmm ..... the screw or the wedge? Pretty easy to replace a screw.

Numrich is out of stock:
https://www.gunpartscorp.com/gun-manufacturer/colt/black-pow-revolvers/1851-navy

But just keep looking for other sources. They turn up. This might work:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/166838843992?_skw=colt+1851+navy+wedge+screw&itmmeta=01JAKKMJF5ECMF3JJVV22B1H92&hash=item26d85eba58:g:6UYAAOSwoRpmHWMO&itmprp=enc:AQAJAAAA0HoV3kP08IDx+KZ9MfhVJKnv9MC9wuN5m0Y7uvbbrQEqLpp048/okWw+NUxmWyE40PoA7tOBmgF+PtUOIEFZJfcCGp4QX0Qc24b7tOizNGqFjjH+K3m71L3jvuZwoWSetePiarhNFDyBiTqZ+7tQqc5SWKbyEoOwLHyI20gBzJrRni0t0QNIBQIqHbiCQ5OJ2x2Q/bxpj1+QBUrZe3BM/xV4nF0945rDi9s1IJQUOTfeJPnwfk1EkPf34O6LrLsMeutKaUGtWEis/elEo5Hyej8=|tkp:Bk9SR9Kn0vPUZA

If it's the wedge you boogered, some filing might fix it. Don't throw in the towel; there's almost always some way out. :thumb:

GLOCKer · Oct 19, 2024

wiscoaster said:
Ummmm ..... the screw or the wedge? Pretty easy to replace a screw.

Numrich is out of stock:
https://www.gunpartscorp.com/gun-manufacturer/colt/black-pow-revolvers/1851-navy

But just keep looking for other sources. They turn up. This might work:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/166838843992?_skw=colt+1851+navy+wedge+screw&itmmeta=01JAKKMJF5ECMF3JJVV22B1H92&hash=item26d85eba58:g:6UYAAOSwoRpmHWMO&itmprp=enc:AQAJAAAA0HoV3kP08IDx+KZ9MfhVJKnv9MC9wuN5m0Y7uvbbrQEqLpp048/okWw+NUxmWyE40PoA7tOBmgF+PtUOIEFZJfcCGp4QX0Qc24b7tOizNGqFjjH+K3m71L3jvuZwoWSetePiarhNFDyBiTqZ+7tQqc5SWKbyEoOwLHyI20gBzJrRni0t0QNIBQIqHbiCQ5OJ2x2Q/bxpj1+QBUrZe3BM/xV4nF0945rDi9s1IJQUOTfeJPnwfk1EkPf34O6LrLsMeutKaUGtWEis/elEo5Hyej8=|tkp:Bk9SR9Kn0vPUZA

If it's the wedge you boogered, some filing might fix it. Don't throw in the towel; there's almost always some way out.

Thanks!
I ordered the Pietta screw from VTI and it fit, before I buggered it up.hahahaha.

I just reordered one.

KingOfKindling · Oct 20, 2024

I just got a Rigarmi 1860 yesterday. Was from a gunbroker auction that included a buttstock (which doesn't fit on the gun). Auction said RAG, and Uberti. Hadn't ever heard of Rigarmi guns so assumed it was just an old Uberti. It is not.

Gun was buried in old grease, and the action, like yours was pretty gummy. You'll probably want to completely disassemble it sooner than later and clean stuff up. The internals on mine were a mess of corrosion, rust, verdigris, varnished oil, and nasty grease. Once cleaned up It's much smoother aside from a very hefty hammer spring. Barrel is very good, though the rifling is pretty shallow compared to a modern Pietta or Uberti. What's your rifling look like?

Looks pretty good for a very old gun at least.

One thing I noticed when I went to test fire some caps this morning (and the reason I made this post), is that the percussion nipples are tiny. They've got to be smaller than even a size 10, maybe something metric. Who know, maybe small #8 or #9 caps existed in the 60's and 70's.

Extremely pinched #11 caps stayed on long enough to go bang, but I don't think it's a good idea to shoot it with those.

Gonna pull the nipples out of the gun again, and measure them. See if I can find something with the right threads that work with #11 caps.

Jappo · Oct 20, 2024

KingOfKindling said:
I just got a Rigarmi 1860 yesterday. Was from a gunbroker auction that included a buttstock (which doesn't fit on the gun). Auction said RAG, and Uberti. Hadn't ever heard of Rigarmi guns so assumed it was just an old Uberti. It is not.

Gun was buried in old grease, and the action, like yours was pretty gummy. You'll probably want to completely disassemble it sooner than later and clean stuff up. The internals on mine were a mess of corrosion, rust, verdigris, varnished oil, and nasty grease. Once cleaned up It's much smoother aside from a very hefty hammer spring. Barrel is very good, though the rifling is pretty shallow compared to a modern Pietta or Uberti. What's your rifling look like?

Looks pretty good for a very old gun at least.

View attachment 356515

One thing I noticed when I went to test fire some caps this morning (and the reason I made this post), is that the percussion nipples are tiny. They've got to be smaller than even a size 10, maybe something metric. Who know, maybe small #8 or #9 caps existed in the 60's and 70's.

Extremely pinched #11 caps stayed on long enough to go bang, but I don't think it's a good idea to shoot it with those.

Gonna pull the nipples out of the gun again, and measure them. See if I can find something with the right threads that work with #11 caps.

That's a nice looking RAG 60. I don't remember but there is a difference in #10 caps size on Remington and CCI. Most all these old revolvers use #10

springfield art · Oct 20, 2024

GLOCKer said:
I'm kind of moving this discussion over here from the "Firearm Identification" sub-form because she's been identified.

And it's been deluver to my house today by USPS!

I'm so excited to finally own a cap and ball revolver after wanting one for well over a decade. I scored this on for $84 and shipping from an online auction.

Thanks ro this forum, it's been identified as a RAG - Rigarmi 1851 replica probably made in 1972. It seems to be only missing one part - the wedge retaining screw.

It function tests mostly fine, and seems to have a slight, occasional timing issue. The action also feels dirty and gummed up a little. The outside of the gun has been wiped down and oiled, but when I took the barrel and cylinder off, there was a lot of carbon buildup.

Also, when I let the hammer down (gently!) The hammer seems to be pushed off the niple by some spring tension.

I'm considering a total take down of this gun for a deep cleaning. If I do that, I'll touch up the bluing and clean up the brass before reassembly.

I'm really excited to learn how to load and shoot it!

View attachment 356121

Lovely! You know what they say; 'once you go black, (powder), you never go back!

My First Black Powder Firearm!

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