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Birmingham proof marks

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What do you guys know about these Birmingham proof marks? How might it date an English gun? Did they have anything to do with the Ketland family? I’ve read some about them, but getting some conflicting info. Were they more common on “civilian” guns? - thanks, Andy
IMG_7521.jpeg
 
What do you guys know about these Birmingham proof marks? How might it date an English gun? Did they have anything to do with the Ketland family? I’ve read some about them, but getting some conflicting info. Were they more common on “civilian” guns? - thanks, AndyView attachment 357929
The Marks are not Birmingham they are the Govt Tower pier mark for Commercial guns not Ordnance they would have the one but additional Crown GR mark . The Brum proof is post 1814 or so when it was set up. What Ketlands input no idea without research .The evidently new marks are deemed ' fake' . and would be prosecuted in UK . Nice looking gun choose what .
Rudyard
 
Hi,
As Rudyard wrote, they are private Tower proof marks. Gun makers could pay the Tower to have their barrels proofed rather than send them to the London Guild proof house. These marks have often been misidentified as early Birmingham marks or as Ketland proof marks.

dave
 
Hi,
As Rudyard wrote, they are private Tower proof marks. Gun makers could pay the Tower to have their barrels proofed rather than send them to the London Guild proof house. These marks have often been misidentified as early Birmingham marks or as Ketland proof marks.

dave
Yes that Rudyard's not as silly as he looks Thanks Dave
.Regards Rudyard
 
Agreed with above and they are also a bit oversized.
There hand cuts the sizes did varie, If any we don't drive them as hard as they did but they had wrought iron, that barrels probably steel and they really' bopped 'the mark might also have had a jig or just did it every working day . I wasn't their But have observed many such as we all do.
Rudyard
 
There hand cuts the sizes did varie, If any we don't drive them as hard as they did but they had wrought iron, that barrels probably steel and they really' bopped 'the mark might also have had a jig or just did it every working day . I wasn't their But have observed many such as we all do.
Rudyard
Well last night they appeared to look 3/4" tall each : )
Hadn't had a drop I promise. Of course I'm usually always looking at the forum on my phone, glasses on and I usually expand everything to see it.
 
Wow- The UK would deem such artistically recreated proof marks as “forgeries”?
While the ones shown are not used today the duplication of old marks in the UK at least is considered a counter Fiet and spurious . You could make your own gun. But you cant give sell or otherwise pass it on unless its been too & stood Proof . if usually well used shot guns might wear over sized & thusly deemed' out of proof' its only the high end shot guns likley to be so worn. Any rifle being stouter will just become 'shot out' but not be considered' out of proof 'as such This is not a Govt law its the Proof houses gun trade law . Only Birmingham is a serios Proof house the London one puts very few guns through I used them twice they were a useless shower both times .Brum is the only real proof house .Out side of the European houses I don't know any other global ones . US .Canada . Australia. & NZ .have no such . And that seems to work . Oh India has some .that's Me Proofed out.
Rudyard
 
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