Hunting loads for my .58 black powder rifle

Antelope Pete said:

Instead of doing that why not do the right thing and work on getting to around 100 yds. give or take a little. Getting closer is what it's all about and the rest of us that hunt open country try to figure out how to do it. Sometimes you can, sometimes you can't.

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I love stalking but that won’t work in this spot. This is a pocket that holds coues deer and it is much different that whitetail back east I’ve tried it does not work in this spot

lou puleff said:

I love stalking but that won’t work in this spot. This is a pocket that holds coues deer and it is much different that whitetail back east I’ve tried it does not work in this spot

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If you are locked into that long shot, I'd go with a higher charge and a further zero. If you're accurate enough and you often have have long shots, why not zero at 125-150?

Coues deer are also much smaller than regular white tail or mule deer. At 150 yards you are looking a wind drift ranging from 10 to over 40 inches in wind of 5 to 20 miles per hour even if your range/drop is spot on. You may be hunting in canyons or mountains where the wind swirls a lot. Combining that with the elevation/range comments above, you are way more likely to miss. I wore out more than a couple pairs of knee patches chasing those little buggers in the mountains north of Globe. Combine the challenge you accept hunting with a muzzleloader, and all the other factors around your chosen range, you will likely continue to be frustrated beyond 100 yards. Camo up, wear knee and elbow pads and get close and personal.

HighUintas said:

If you are locked into that long shot, I'd go with a higher charge and a further zero. If you're accurate enough and you often have have long shots, why not zero at 125-150?

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Yes my mistake for sure !

I'd also keep track of your first round hit rate for vitals sized target from that distance with the same exact rest after doing a jumping jacks.

I'd equate that shot to a CF bolt rifle at 700 yards. Most people shouldn't be shooting that far at game

lou puleff said:

Yes my mistake for sure !

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Idaho ron? He loves shooting long distances with hawkens and various pointy bullets with bp. Find his posts here and his utube channel as he has great ideas on how to hit longer distance.

He "hot rods" his rifles if I recall and shoots out west.

Sorry if I got the name incorrect but he knows long distance shooting if someome corrects me on his id.

I can do do long range all day long with my other rifles especially my whites with big chunks of lead. I was just trying to get a deer with this rifle and it was the last morning of my hunt. This spot is primarily a morning spot so I wasn't going to wait. I think my biggest mistake was my load more than anything I should have done at least 150 grains of powder and sighted in so I can hold low or high on the chest at my minimum and maximum distances without messing with the rear sight or ranging I know my closest shot would be 40 yards and my farthest is 200. I am of the same thought as some here about getting closer but you just can't physically do it without blowing out all the deer so you just have to find a way to shoot with the hand your dealt with. I know some here will not like that and I'm ok with that otherwise I wouldn't have opened myself up to the criticism but I do appreciate the feed back from everyone on the matter.

You are talking about hunting. Not target shooting. The skill is being able to get to close enough to the animal that there is no need for a long shot. In the old days the Indians could get close enough to use a bow and arrow. All it takes is practice.

I can do do long range all day long with my other rifles especially my whites with big chunks of lead. I was just trying to get a deer with this rifle and it was the last morning of my hunt. This spot is primarily a morning spot so I wasn't going to wait. I think my biggest mistake was my load more than anything I should have done at least 150 grains of powder and sighted in so I can hold low or high on the chest at my minimum and maximum distances without messing with the rear sight or ranging I know my closest shot would be 40 yards and my farthest is 200. I am of the same thought as some here about getting closer but you just can't physically do it without blowing out all the deer so you just have to find a way to shoot with the hand your dealt with. I know some here will not like that and I'm ok with that otherwise I wouldn't have opened myself up to the criticism but I do appreciate the feed back from everyone on the matter.

billraby said:

You are talking about hunting. Not target shooting. The skill is being able to get to close enough to the animal that there is no need for a long shot. In the old days the Indians could get close enough to use a bow and arrow. All it takes is practice.

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I appreciate the comment but like I said I can’t get any closer the deer need to get closer to me I know how to get close but just not in this case if I ever try I would never get a shot. I guess I can plant some trees and clear a lane of all the rocks and dead branches. I used to clear lanes like that back home before archery season and shot a few deer that way that’s just not an option in this spot. I hate the terrain here there’s so many rocks !

billraby said:

You are talking about hunting. Not target shooting. The skill is being able to get to close enough to the animal that there is no need for a long shot. In the old days the Indians could get close enough to use a bow and arrow. All it takes is practice.

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We like to say and think that is what hunting is, but all hunting is is the taking of wild game. Indians, fur trappers, whoever.... Have always gone after the most advanced technology they could get their hands on for hunting or defense when it became available. Whatever gives an edge is what was used and there were likely not as many "high" feelings about hunting as there are today. Where can you spend the most time to increase your chances of a successful kill... Is your free time limited to the range or a nearby shooting area or can you spend enough free time in the mountains with the deer to be able to get closer?

The important part is ensuring that you're proficient in whatever strategy you're using.

You're going to be faced with a rainbow trajectory so off season can you zero in from your position to where the deer make themselves available? Especially so if you're above them, looking downwards towards their location.

nkbj said:

You're going to be faced with a rainbow trajectory so off season can you zero in from your position to where the deer make themselves available? Especially so if you're above them, looking downwards towards their location.

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That's my exact plan is to go out there and do that. It's a five hour drive but I'll grab the camper and head out there after hunting season is over as to not disturb anyone else and set up with some cardboard full size deer targets and sight in. I wish I had done that to begin with but with the elk season going on I didn't want to booger anyone up on their hunt !

I honestly think that your desire for a long range kill is clouding consideration of hunting ethics. IMHO a 180-200 yard shot with a round ball at black powder velocities over open sights is asking for trouble even if you're able to ACCURATELY sight your rifle in at that distance. In the time it takes for you to pull the trigger and the ball to get down range, the deer only has to take one step for a gut shot animal that will run off. By the time you reload and cover the distance to where the hit took place, that deer will probably be long gone, leaving little blood to follow. As stated above, shooting at a cardboard target at a known range is different than shooting at a live animal who doesn't feel compelled to cooperate.

gemmer said:

I honestly think that your desire for a long range kill is clouding consideration of hunting ethics. IMHO a 180-200 yard shot with a round ball at black powder velocities over open sights is asking for trouble even if you're able to ACCURATELY sight your rifle in at that distance. In the time it takes for you to pull the trigger and the ball to get down range, the deer only has to take one step for a gut shot animal that will run off. By the time you reload and cover the distance to where the hit took place, that deer will probably be long gone, leaving little blood to follow. As stated above, shooting at a cardboard target at a known range is different than shooting at a live animal who doesn't feel compelled to cooperate.

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I don’t have a desire for a long range shot it just the way it is here out west most people shoot elk with a bow at 70-80 yards (crazy) back home most shots were 40-60 yards tops if you can’t shoot longer distances here you go hungry I had an opportunity to take a shot at the same buck opening day 140 yards but he was facing directly away from me I didn’t dare take that shot. I understand everyone’s opinion on this subject trust me I do I have a shoe box full of unfilled tag’s because I aired on the side of caution I feel this was a very doable shot but for my choice of load I had a steady rest and was calm when I took the shot I just misjudged the distance and set my rear sight at the wrong elevation.

lou puleff said:

Nice chart thank you ! I’m going to have to do a lot more testing I’m already planning on bringing up a cardboard deer target and place it where the deer was standing and see with that load what it does then start upping my charge and see in real world application what it does.

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You say you didn’t have time to range find him, and that begs the question of time on target. Was this a snap shot?
I can miss at twenty five yards if I move too quick
Every deer I’ve taken has been a calm resting shot, your miss might not have been the load or the wind or any other of the things that can throw a ball wrong. A little fast on the trigger can throw the ball that gets four inch groups off the paper.
I would think this might be a bit of angels with week bladders

My self imposed limit is 120 yds, because of wind drift. The chart is informative, 23" drift at a steady speed and direction. In my area doping wind is almost impossible, being neither steady in speed or direction.
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If this is your chosen path, I would change to something longer than wide (like REAL, Maxi Ball/Hunter, Great Plains, etc), and a powder charge that is the most consistently accurate at that range.
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The shot being attempted would be 'brag worthy' if accomplished with factory / open sights and a 30-30 and Hornady ammo. With a flintlock / black powder / .58 .

lou puleff said:

Shot was 180 yards

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That’s way too far for a muzzleloader. Roundball range should be 100 yard max. They weren’t designed to shoot game at 180 yards. Sure, I can hit a gong at 300 yards but then I’m not trying to kill it, just ring it and it doesn’t really matter where I hit it or hope hard I hit it as long as it rings. I typically try to stalk to less than a 100 yards on big game. Also be ready to load quickly, just in case…..

gemmer said:

100 gr is plenty of powder. How far was the shot?

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Yeah, 150 is a bit much!

lou puleff said:

After my missed deer the other day I'm wondering if I shouldn't have set my rifle up differently. Thinking I should have used more powder so it shoots flatter without having to use the rear adjustable sight for different yardages and just hold lower or higher. I was using 100 grains of Swiss 2f and using the adjustable rear buckhorn for different distances I'm thinking I should have gone to at least 150 grains if not more and just use a higher or lower hold any thoughts on the subject ?
Thanks !!

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Have you heard of the Lee Precision R.E.A.L bullets? I cast those for a .58. They are an excellent bullet and they clean the barrel each time you shoot them.

tenngun said:

You say you didn’t have time to range find him, and that begs the question of time on target. Was this a snap shot?
I can miss at twenty five yards if I move too quick
Every deer I’ve taken has been a calm resting shot, your miss might not have been the load or the wind or any other of the things that can throw a ball wrong. A little fast on the trigger can throw the ball that gets four inch groups off the paper.
I would think this might be a bit of angels with week bladders

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No snap shot no wind had a window of a gap in trees he was feeding on the move stop and eat them move so I had my gun up on a tree limb I put up between two trees to rest my rifle on for longer shots I just didn’t get the yardage right I set my sight for 150 and he was about 180 I found out after the fact. I was wearing my wool and pretty comfortable on my shot and who knows I might have missed even with a different load but I felt confident in my shooting enough to try.