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Was just curious, thinking about the five and six foot twist that were the mid-1800's norm in .58 minie ball barrels.
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Hunting loads for my .58 black powder rifle
- Thread starter lou puleff
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You might consider a .40 for that pronghorn rifle… 300-400 grain bullets are so pleasant to shoot!This is just me here, but if I were trying to do what you are doing, any change to a conical would be with a 45 caliber. Something that will hurl a 400 grain or even a little heavier with a 1:20 twist.
Full disclosure, I'm considering such just for antelope which as time goes on may be the only type hunt I'm capable of.
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.40 with 16" twist is accurate but in our state they say it's not big enough to kill a deer!
longcruise
70 Cal.
Here in Colorado it's officially big enough to kill anything but elk and moose as long as the projectile weighs at least 170 grains..40 with 16" twist is accurate but in our state they say it's not big enough to kill a deer!
View attachment 360041
That of course makes the minimum RB caliber for all big game smaller than elk and moose a 50 caliber. Nonresident ml hunters coming here for the first time are often confused.
The idea of the 40 has crossed my mind but there are many rivers to cross before I get to it.
gustrolland
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100 grains, that is the same load I use with a round ball and is seems just fine for elk and bear. But you gotta be yer oun judge.
You want big chunks of lead here are the slugs I shoot out of my White rifles the honker on the left is a 54 cal 740 grain and the little one on the right is a .50 cal 600 grain that 54 is a reject not a perfect cast so no comments on it please.Here in Colorado it's officially big enough to kill anything but elk and moose as long as the projectile weighs at least 170 grains.
That of course makes the minimum RB caliber for all big game smaller than elk and moose a 50 caliber. Nonresident ml hunters coming here for the first time are often confused.
The idea of the 40 has crossed my mind but there are many rivers to cross before I get to it.
Attachments
longcruise
70 Cal.
I'm not a big chunk of lead guy. I've killed deer and elk with balls and conicals. I would say the sample is not large enough to proclaim either superior but OTOH balls have never failed me and conicals have given a couple slow kills.
I like them out of my White rifles they shoot big heavy chunks of lead extremely accurate and they are all slip fit so very easy to load shot to shot they have their purpose for me when hunting whitetail back east.
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Colorado also allows hunters to use a 35# draw weight bow for elk and other big game. So a 35# Osage longbow casting a 400 grain arrow at probably less than 165fps is perfectly reasonable and lethal for elk and a 400 grain .40” bullet at 1300 fps is not. Make it make sense…Here in Colorado it's officially big enough to kill anything but elk and moose as long as the projectile weighs at least 170 grains.
That of course makes the minimum RB caliber for all big game smaller than elk and moose a 50 caliber. Nonresident ml hunters coming here for the first time are often confused.
The idea of the 40 has crossed my mind but there are many rivers to cross before I get to it.
longcruise
70 Cal.
Yes, the regs department (for lack of knowing what the actual department is) doesn't seem to have any source of reliable and realistic input. Consequently the basis is SWAG along with the input of various special interest groups.
I'm too old to care about it
.
Being a military match shooter, I can say that there are a lot of variable's there. I will keep it within the context of muzzleloaders.
I read through a lot of these posts. Interesting thread. There is a lot of peripheral data in this. My first consideration would be, does my rifle shoot most accurately with my first shot with a clean barrel? Or with a fouled barrel?
A clean barrel is inaccurate. A guy will go out and practice a long distance shot and he thinks he’s getting better after that first shot. Very deceiving. He cleans his rifle to get it ready for the hunt and when he takes that extended range shot, misses.
A hawken style rifle will have a shorter barrel. The longer the barrel, the flatter the trajectory. The higher the velocity. A 42” .58 caliber barrel on a long rifle pattern will be inherently more accurate with the longer the sight radius. Of course it can be done with any rifle. It’s a mathematical problem of potential and probabilities. The resting of the barrel has SIGNIFICANT influence. How you rest the barrel will change the flight path.
You will need to duplicate as exact as possible, how you rest the barrel during practice.
The longer the shot, the greater the arc. Ranging is paramount. You have less room for distance error. So if you can’t range it, you will have to perform a mental “Kentucky windage” calculation. It can be done.
A down hill shot is the worse for distancing. It can be done.
For rifles, the stock has more influence than any other factor. Other than just piss poor shooting ability and adrenaline.
I hunt mostly with a bow. So I know that I need to be close on an elk. That’s the game. At least for me. It’s a tactical problem. It makes the hunt, a hunt.
In truth I shoot nearly every day on my property. Some don’t even understand the true brilliance of a long rifle. I shoot them to master my off hand skill for military match.
The influence of a stock on accuracy will always be pre-eminent influence on accuracy. Above all else. This is why a long rifle was designed to shoot off hand with your steady hand directly in front of the lock. The pressure on the stock is always consistent.
With calibers above .45 you will see swamped barrels. The weight of the barrel returns the balance point back front of the lock. Extending your hand out further due to a heavy barrel, extends the fulcrum. Inaccurate.
Once I got use to lock time, I found that the is no better practice rifle for military match that a Kentucky/ Pennsylvania long rifle.
A hawker style rifle is significantly at a disadvantage.
You can pull this off of course. IF, you know your arc and can range accurately. If not, you’re pissing in the wind.
The wisdom of early hunters was knowing that , not making a shot and missing means no food to eat. Thus their hunting tactical skills were developed.
This is a first world problem.
I read through a lot of these posts. Interesting thread. There is a lot of peripheral data in this. My first consideration would be, does my rifle shoot most accurately with my first shot with a clean barrel? Or with a fouled barrel?
A clean barrel is inaccurate. A guy will go out and practice a long distance shot and he thinks he’s getting better after that first shot. Very deceiving. He cleans his rifle to get it ready for the hunt and when he takes that extended range shot, misses.
A hawken style rifle will have a shorter barrel. The longer the barrel, the flatter the trajectory. The higher the velocity. A 42” .58 caliber barrel on a long rifle pattern will be inherently more accurate with the longer the sight radius. Of course it can be done with any rifle. It’s a mathematical problem of potential and probabilities. The resting of the barrel has SIGNIFICANT influence. How you rest the barrel will change the flight path.
You will need to duplicate as exact as possible, how you rest the barrel during practice.
The longer the shot, the greater the arc. Ranging is paramount. You have less room for distance error. So if you can’t range it, you will have to perform a mental “Kentucky windage” calculation. It can be done.
A down hill shot is the worse for distancing. It can be done.
For rifles, the stock has more influence than any other factor. Other than just piss poor shooting ability and adrenaline.
I hunt mostly with a bow. So I know that I need to be close on an elk. That’s the game. At least for me. It’s a tactical problem. It makes the hunt, a hunt.
In truth I shoot nearly every day on my property. Some don’t even understand the true brilliance of a long rifle. I shoot them to master my off hand skill for military match.
The influence of a stock on accuracy will always be pre-eminent influence on accuracy. Above all else. This is why a long rifle was designed to shoot off hand with your steady hand directly in front of the lock. The pressure on the stock is always consistent.
With calibers above .45 you will see swamped barrels. The weight of the barrel returns the balance point back front of the lock. Extending your hand out further due to a heavy barrel, extends the fulcrum. Inaccurate.
Once I got use to lock time, I found that the is no better practice rifle for military match that a Kentucky/ Pennsylvania long rifle.
A hawker style rifle is significantly at a disadvantage.
You can pull this off of course. IF, you know your arc and can range accurately. If not, you’re pissing in the wind.
The wisdom of early hunters was knowing that , not making a shot and missing means no food to eat. Thus their hunting tactical skills were developed.
This is a first world problem.
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Double post
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Lloyd Powell
32 Cal
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If you are going to take a risky shot at an animal I woysuggest you put the gun away and go to Burger King! You should not be hunting anything at all!!!!
there is a drill you can use to learn your rifle for shooting at distance.
We call these “walk backs”.
1.) These shots are all off hand. Go to 50 yards. Shoot at your steel or target. Reload right there.
2). Turn your back to the target and start walking. Go as far as you want. Turn back to the target a shoot. Don’t rush it. Make the best shot you can. Reload.
3) turn your back to the target and start walking. Stop when you feel like it. Turn and shoot. Don’t rush it. Make the best shot you can. Reload.
4). Repeat.
Until you can hit your target and steel at 200 yards, you have work to do. You don’t have to shoot X’s or bullseyes. Just a shot in a kill zone.
Yes, I can shoot my match M1 Garand off hand to 200 yards/meters and keep them in the black. (Not all X ring shots of course)
I’m working on it with my long rifles. I’m getting pretty good to 150. The drop off after that is very challenging. I know it’s best to use just one rifle for now, so I use my .50 with a swamped barrel.
Good luck.
WARNING: this is an advanced shooting drill. It’s not for the feint of heart. A hawken style rifle is a difficult rifle to shoot off hand. Difficult at best.
We call these “walk backs”.
1.) These shots are all off hand. Go to 50 yards. Shoot at your steel or target. Reload right there.
2). Turn your back to the target and start walking. Go as far as you want. Turn back to the target a shoot. Don’t rush it. Make the best shot you can. Reload.
3) turn your back to the target and start walking. Stop when you feel like it. Turn and shoot. Don’t rush it. Make the best shot you can. Reload.
4). Repeat.
Until you can hit your target and steel at 200 yards, you have work to do. You don’t have to shoot X’s or bullseyes. Just a shot in a kill zone.
Yes, I can shoot my match M1 Garand off hand to 200 yards/meters and keep them in the black. (Not all X ring shots of course)
I’m working on it with my long rifles. I’m getting pretty good to 150. The drop off after that is very challenging. I know it’s best to use just one rifle for now, so I use my .50 with a swamped barrel.
Good luck.
WARNING: this is an advanced shooting drill. It’s not for the feint of heart. A hawken style rifle is a difficult rifle to shoot off hand. Difficult at best.
Lloyd Powell
32 Cal
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Loved shortly M- in marines I can’t shoot offhand because my bro eat is so strong. I qualified if I can remember back 60+ years 1959 with 238 all out of black were offhand.
Awesome. I was a three time expert qualifier myself. Semper Fi brother.
What unit are you hunting?
That's why my mistake was not using more powder shooting flatter out to longer distance. My Hawken has a 32" barrel and shoots same poi from first shot to the 3rd I just think that 30 yard misjudgement in distance would have been negated if I used a 150 grain load instead of the 100 and I will test that theory at the exact spot I was hunting. I did test the 100 grain load out to 200 yards shooting steel ram silhouettes.
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