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Help a newbie understand what went wrong...

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Voltigeur_de_la_Garde

Voltigeur_de_la_Garde

32 Cal
Joined
Jan 6, 2024
Messages
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Location
Schweiz (Switzerland)
So yesterday was the day. I went to the range with one of my Muzzleloaders for the first time. For this honor I chose my Sicilian Service Rifle model 1849. It's a 69. Cal rifle. I loaded with 30 grains of 2f and a 69. Cal Minié. I fired four shots without incident, having a blast, but when I pulled the trigger on the fifth shot, instead of a sharp *bang* all I heard was a *thump*. There was no recoil at all so I was covinced the charge hadn,t gone off. After what felt like half an hour of anxious waiting I dared to put the ramrod down the barrel...to discover it was empty. I had loaded both ball and powder no doubt about it, so what went wrong?
 

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The only way I think would result in this is if the load was loose. With the slug well off the charge the pressure had a lot of volume to expand in until it pushed the slug out of the barrel with out causing any damage. Signs of that happening is an unusual dirty bore after the shot.
 
That is a light load for a Minie', but the service load would have been 50 grains of powder so that would not have been the problem since earlier shots did have a sharp bang.

That thump sounds more like there was no bullet over the powder. For some reason, could the Minie' ball moved off the charge? It should not have as fouling build up would tend to hold the bullet in place. Was the Minie ball short started and only about 10 cm down the barrel? The low powder charge may not cause the barrel to bulge.

@Phil Coffins suggestion to see if the barrel had a lot of fouling after that weak shot is good. That would be an indication of no ball or a very loose ball or a ball not seated down on the powder charge.

Could the powder have gotten wet due to wiping the bore with a very wet patch?

Could @Voltigeur_de_la_Garde please provide all the details of the loading procedure from after a shot was fired until the next shot was fired?

Right now, all we can offer is speculation.
 
I will agree with of the other suggestions here - bullet not seated on top of powder - not rammed all the way home. This would give you that odd "blooped" sound when fired instead of a "bang". This is just my guess :dunno:
 
Voltigeur_de_la_Garde said:
So yesterday was the day. I went to the range with one of my Muzzleloaders for the first time. For this honor I chose my Sicilian Service Rifle model 1849. It's a 69. Cal rifle. I loaded with 30 grains of 2f and a 69. Cal Minié. I fired four shots without incident, having a blast, but when I pulled the trigger on the fifth shot, instead of a sharp *bang* all I heard was a *thump*. There was no recoil at all so I was covinced the charge hadn,t gone off. After what felt like half an hour of anxious waiting I dared to put the ramrod down the barrel...to discover it was empty. I had loaded both ball and powder no doubt about it, so what went wrong?
Click to expand...
You have some good replies already. My two cents: are you sure the 30 grains did not get contaminated or wet? Was the 30 grains maybe spilled and you did not have the full 30? Did you shoot another two or three shots to see if the thump was consistant?
Larry
 
I know you seem certain that you loaded a bullet but is there any possibility that you didn't load the it? Did it hit the target? Did it impact anywhere?
 
longcruise said:
I shot several times at an underground indoor range that had a hefty exhaust system. No problem 😊 Not sure if that range is still in business.
Click to expand...
There was one in Lakewood many years ago. I can’t recall the name or the street it was on but it’s probably buried under concrete and asphalt anyway.
 
Grenadier1758 said:
That is a light load for a Minie', but the service load would have been 50 grains of powder so that would not have been the problem since earlier shots did have a sharp bang.

That thump sounds more like there was no bullet over the powder. For some reason, could the Minie' ball moved off the charge? It should not have as fouling build up would tend to hold the bullet in place. Was the Minie ball short started and only about 10 cm down the barrel? The low powder charge may not cause the barrel to bulge.

@Phil Coffins suggestion to see if the barrel had a lot of fouling after that weak shot is good. That would be an indication of no ball or a very loose ball or a ball not seated down on the powder charge.

Could the powder have gotten wet due to wiping the bore with a very wet patch?

Could @Voltigeur_de_la_Garde please provide all the details of the loading procedure from after a shot was fired until the next shot was fired?

Right now, all we can offer is speculation.
Click to expand...
The complete procedure is very simple.
Measured 30gr. of powder by volume, poured it down the barrel (without the use of a funnel), put minié in the muzzle, rammed it home and put a cap on the nipple
 
longcruise said:
That's the one. It was on west jewel about a block west of Wadsworth.
Click to expand...

There you go… I met a guy at the Stock Show and we had made a trade for his Bisley Colt. I can’t remember what it was I traded but we met at that range to make the swap and shoot a bit. Left town in a snowstorm we would have largely missed had we not stopped to do the deal. Nothing quite like that drive in bad weather, dodging ski tourists wrecked along the road. I kinda liked it actually, my wife sitting pretty next to me in my old Chevy, (I miss those bench seats!) new old gun, snowing to beat the band, feeling ten foot tall and bulletproof.
 
Maybe wet that ruined bout 20 gr of the powder, leaving 10 for a gentile push.
 
I short started a couple of times and got the same "thump" as you did, sometimes we think we have loading right but didn't. I was shooting 90 gr of 2F and a .530 patched round ball both times, fortunately there was no barrel damage, it was a Rice barrel.
 
Voltigeur_de_la_Garde said:
The complete procedure is very simple.
Measured 30gr. of powder by volume, poured it down the barrel (without the use of a funnel), put minié in the muzzle, rammed it home and put a cap on the nipple
Click to expand...
Nothing really amiss in your loading procedure.

I think it is time to give it another try.

Have you measured the land-to-land diameter of the bore?
What is the land-to-land diameter of the bore?
What is the diameter of your Minie' ball?
What are you using to lubricate the Minie' ball?
After loading, are you pointing the muzzle down or keeping it pointed up?

If you are not wiping between shots, I don't see how you could have introduced excess moisture to dampen the powder charge.
Also, if you are not wiping between shots, the fouling left from the previous shot will tend to hold the Minie' ball in place.

I would also take a hard look at the breech for signs of leakage. This is very unlikely as I think the ball more likely moved away from the powder charge.
 
This is speculation of a low probability event, but is it possible that the Minie split allowing a lot of blow-by with no big bang and still resides near the breach. If it were my ML I would make sure with either a borescope or a full diameter rod. A bad cast Minie might not seal up and behave as it should. Some Minies I've seen are not too thick in the front section, more like an over-powder wad than a projectile. Again, low probability speculation, but easy to check.
 

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