.45 TC Hawken Information

Colonel_LD · Nov 4, 2024

I put together a .45 Hawken TC kit back in ‘85 and used it for target shooting and deer hunting. Its a great rifle and well past time, after many years, to get back into the hobby.

I’m looking for information about loads for it such as the chart below and accessibility these days to the pre-lubed Maxi balls I used many years ago.

Thanks a bunch!

Colonel_LD

Indy Durtdigger · Nov 5, 2024

I don't have time to do it this morning and hopefully I don't forget but I've got TC books with the load data you seek. As for the Maxi-balls, on a quick search this is the only site I know is legit and order from. https://rmcoxyoke.com/product/maxi-balls/

Indy Durtdigger · Nov 5, 2024

Indy Durtdigger said:
I don't have time to do it this morning and hopefully I don't forget but I've got TC books with the load data you seek. As for the Maxi-balls, on a quick search this is the only site I know is legit and order from. https://rmcoxyoke.com/product/maxi-balls/

Don't know how I managed to quote my own post? need more coffee :doh:

longcruise · Nov 5, 2024

I'm confused

. Is it that you are looking for 45 data similar to your OP?

Loyalist Dave · Nov 5, 2024

longcruise said:
I'm confused . Is it that you are looking for 45 data similar to your OP?

He is looking for somebody who can publish the page for loads from an old TC manual. The problem is a lot of the online manuals are .50

LD

longcruise · Nov 5, 2024

Loyalist Dave said:
He is looking for somebody who can publish the page for loads from an old TC manual. The problem is a lot of the online manuals are .50

LD

Yes, I looked up the manual I downloaded and it refers only to the 50. Can't figure why they would have done that.

I think I have my 1974 version of the manual. If I can find it, I'll screenshot the 45 data.

longcruise · Nov 5, 2024

Didn't find the 74 version but found another with the info. Here's screen shots of 45 data.

Loyalist Dave · Nov 5, 2024

Colonel_LD said:
I put together a .45 Hawken TC kit back in ‘85 and used it for target shooting and deer hunting. Its a great rifle and well past time, after many years, to get back into the hobby.

I’m looking for information about loads for it such as the chart below and accessibility these days to the pre-lubed Maxi balls I used many years ago.

Thanks a bunch!

Colonel_LDView attachment 360094

Here's what I dug up. NOTE there is different data for Seneca and Cherokee model rifles :

You can find the full generic muzzleloader manual from TC here but you have to subscribe to easily read it TC Manual

LD

longcruise · Nov 5, 2024

It's wise to take their accuracy and velocity information with a grain of salt. Accuracy is going to vary a lot from gun to gun and with patching and powder manufacturer. Range time with testing on paper for accuracy results and if it matters, a chronograph for velocities.

I have in the past chronographed a lot of load variables and the results are not generally predicted by any tables from any source.

Loyalist Dave · Nov 5, 2024

longcruise said:
It's wise to take their accuracy and velocity information with a grain of salt. Accuracy is going to vary a lot from gun to gun and with patching and powder manufacturer. Range time with testing on paper for accuracy results and if it matters, a chronograph for velocities.

I have in the past chronographed a lot of load variables and the results are not generally predicted by any tables from any source.

Interesting that from two obviously different printings of the manuals the data stayed the same.
I doubt they ever retested the rifle loads.
They don't list the brand of powder, and this was long before Swiss or Scheutzen
LD

longcruise · Nov 5, 2024

Loyalist Dave said:
Interesting that from two obviously different printings of the manuals the data stayed the same.
I doubt they ever retested the rifle loads.
They don't list the brand of powder, and this was long before Swiss or Scheutzen
LD

Yes, and the biggest variable that I found in chronographing loads was powder.

I tested goex, elephant, grafs, swiss, pyrodex and maybe some that I don't recall. I have that data on the desktop. If anyone is interested in seeing it I can dig it out.

Indy Durtdigger · Nov 5, 2024

Those are identical to the ones I have from the 80s and 90s.

kelljp · Nov 6, 2024

longcruise said:
Yes, and the biggest variable that I found in chronographing loads was powder.

I tested goex, elephant, grafs, swiss, pyrodex and maybe some that I don't recall. I have that data on the desktop. If anyone is interested in seeing it I can dig it out.

Do you recall what difference you saw in the powders performance ?

longcruise · Nov 6, 2024

kelljp said:
Do you recall what difference you saw in the powders performance ?

I'll look for the data and paste it in if I find it.

fliowa · Nov 7, 2024

Booklet

jslamin · Nov 7, 2024

Here is copies from a T/C booklet copyrighted 1983

jslamin · Nov 7, 2024

Sorry about the rotation. Do a screen print and they will be fine.

Colonel_LD · Nov 8, 2024

Thanks a bunch, Guys! This is exactly what I needed to get my mind right again. What a great community!!!!

Best,

Colonel_LD

longcruise · Nov 10, 2024

kelljp said:
Do you recall what difference you saw in the powders performance ?

Here is the results of the powders I tested. This as quite a few years back so there is no reason to believe that the same brands would give the same results at this time. No data for any of the newer subs since they were not available back then.

My main takeaway from this is that published velocity tables may or may not be applicable to your rifle and your powder. May not even be applicable to the powder they used to create the table.

A legitimate question here is "what would the differences be if the charges had been measured by weight rather than volume"? After doing the velocities by volume, I did a benchtop comparison of the actual weight of each powder from the same measure. You can see a wide difference in some of these. I didn;t do pyrodex in this comparison because it is 30% +/- lighter than all BP by it's nature. Actually, a test of Pyrodex comparing weighed charges to even the swiss, the Pyro would probably be tops in velocity.

The weight vs volume data follows the velocity data below.

Average velocities for various powders with charges thrown from 50grain volumetric measure. and shooting a .530 patched ball from a 32".54 caliber barrel

Graf 3f
1405
1388
1370
1391
1396
Avg1390

Elephant 2f
1135
1208
1215
1215
1238
Avg1201

Swiss 2f
1546
1531
1574
1558
Avg1552

Goex 2f
1349
1362
1376
Avg1362

Goex 3f
1469
1516
Avg 1492
These two velocities were the only ones obtainable due to brightsun and erratic chrono behaviour

Pyrodex RS
1494
Only one good reading due to changing light conditions on the chrono.

**********************************************************************

Velocity by weight

Elephant 2f Actual weight in grains 60.27
Avg velocity 1201

Swiss 2f Actual weight in grains 57.30
Avg velocity 1552

Graf 3f Actual weight in grains 55.55
Avg velocity 1390

Goex 3f actual weight in grains 52.25
Avg velocity 1492

Goex 2f Actual weight in grains 51.37
Avg velocity 1362

kelljp · Nov 10, 2024

Thanks, interesting results. It reinforces my unscientific assumptions as to why I like Swiss powder.

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