Need help tuning lock

SammyP · Sep 28, 2024

So I have a dillema, my lock seems to be dulling flints really quickly. This is my first flintlock. It is an Indian made (Access Heritage) NW trade gun. So far the gun is a tack driver, that is when it goes off. The frizzen throws good sparks when it does and the flints are freshly sharpened. When I first got it, I could get it to go off once or twice before having to sharpen it. I did some reading and angled the flint downward but still was having the issues. Got a scale and the hammer pulled back at 18lbs and the middle of the frizzen at 11lbs. I polished and sanded down the cam on the frizzen just barely and at the middle of the frizzen it is now flipping at 7lbs. The gun now goes off about 7 to 8 times before having to resharpen it (flints are from ToW). All of that is to ask, should I keep polishing the cam? Should I mess with the frizzen spring? I am adding pictures so yall can see the lock geometry. Any help is appreciated!

stubshaft · Sep 28, 2024

Your geometry doesn't look too bad, but judging from the gouges on the frizzen it looks like it may be a little soft. If you try to file the face does it skate off or scratch the face?

SammyP · Sep 28, 2024

stubshaft said:
Your geometry doesn't look too bad, but judging from the gouges on the frizzen it looks like it may be a little soft. If you try to file the face does it skate off or scratch the face?

I have not done that yet but will update you in the morning!

duca · Sep 28, 2024

Wow! That’s Not good

SammyP · Sep 29, 2024

stubshaft said:
Your geometry doesn't look too bad, but judging from the gouges on the frizzen it looks like it may be a little soft. If you try to file the face does it skate off or scratch the face?

UPDATE: Took a file to it this morning and it skates off it, can't get it to dig in the frizzen face. I also learned something important, I took a slow mo video this morning and frame by frame played it back and the frizzen is bouncing back and whacking the edge of my flint.

wiscoaster · Sep 29, 2024

SammyP said:
..... I also learned something important, I took a slow mo video this morning and frame by frame played it back and the frizzen is bouncing back and whacking the edge of my flint.

Nice detective work!! :thumb:

stubshaft · Sep 30, 2024

Well, it seems hard enough, but other than the fact that it has to be the thinnest frizzen I've seen I am at a loss.

rich pierce · Sep 30, 2024

SammyP said:
UPDATE: Took a file to it this morning and it skates off it, can't get it to dig in the frizzen face. I also learned something important, I took a slow mo video this morning and frame by frame played it back and the frizzen is bouncing back and whacking the edge of my flint.

What’s the planned solution? Are you going to modify the frizzen spring? Reduce the mainspring?

SammyP · Sep 30, 2024

rich pierce said:
What’s the planned solution? Are you going to modify the frizzen spring? Reduce the mainspring?

Right now I have leather covering the end of the flint as a temp fix. Working on the stock and barrel right now anyways. In the long term, I think it would be smart to reduce the mainspring as I think 18# is a little high. I need to do research though because I'm not entirely sure the best way to do that. I assume it's to take material off the top rather than the side?

ChuckJonesWagon · Sep 30, 2024

Your frizzen should not be bouncing back against the flint. If you have a trigger pull measurement tool, or even a fishing weight device, measure the poundage of what it takes to open your frizzen. Measure from the top of the frizzen.

I've done this on 4 of my flintlocks and get the following: 1.1-lb, 2.88-lb, 12.-lb & 2.3-lb. None of mine rebound back to hit the flints.

If poundage seems right then perhaps it's the shape of your firzzen's "toe" that's causing the rebound issue? I've taken a screen shot of your lock and have drawn a line as to what the angle of that section of the toe that may help it stay put once open. A little bit more of an angle, with a roll to that flat may hold the frizzen open. If you change this, use caution. A few strokes, check, a few strokes, check. Keep the toe level (don't round from edge to edge) while keeping a round surface for the spring to ride against.

I hope this is making sense.

SammyP · Sep 30, 2024

ChuckJonesWagon said:
Your frizzen should not be bouncing back against the flint. If you have a trigger pull measurement tool, or even a fishing weight device, measure the poundage of what it takes to open your frizzen. Measure from the top of the frizzen.

I've done this on 4 of my flintlocks and get the following: 1.1-lb, 2.88-lb, 12.-lb & 2.3-lb. None of mine rebound back to hit the flints.

If poundage seems right then perhaps it's the shape of your firzzen's "toe" that's causing the rebound issue? I've taken a screen shot of your lock and have drawn a line as to what the angle of that section of the toe that may help it stay put once open. A little bit more of an angle, with a roll to that flat may hold the frizzen open. If you change this, use caution. A few strokes, check, a few strokes, check. Keep the toe level (don't round from edge to edge) while keeping a round surface for the spring to ride against.

I hope this is making sense.
View attachment 352260

Thank yoy so much, will do this!

ChuckJonesWagon · Sep 30, 2024

In giving this a little more thought, you may also want to remove a small amount of material on the frizzen where I have the arrow pointed. Again, don't overdo this. Keep the surface on the back flat and even. Since that is the part of the frizzen that's rebounding from the spring a little longer arc may help prevent that. But before you do that I'd adjust the toe first.

SammyP · Sep 30, 2024

ChuckJonesWagon said:
In giving this a little more thought, you may also want to remove a small amount of material on the frizzen where I have the arrow pointed. Again, don't overdo this. Keep the surface on the back flat and even. Since that is the part of the frizzen that's rebounding from the spring a little longer arc may help prevent that. But before you do that I'd adjust the toe first.

View attachment 352289

Will do this as well. Thank you sir!

rich pierce · Sep 30, 2024

There are several ways to skin a cat. Adjusting the toe may work but I always worry about making it pointed resulting in scarring the spring arm. I adjust the toe when it won’t flip open. My first choice for a rebounding frizzen is to make it harder to rebound. I’d heat the upper arm to almost orange and bend the last half inch of the working arm upward more. This makes it hard for the frizzen to rebound. Then harden and temper.

FlinterNick · Monday at 2:19 PM

rich pierce said:
There are several ways to skin a cat. Adjusting the toe may work but I always worry about making it pointed resulting in scarring the spring arm. I adjust the toe when it won’t flip open. My first choice for a rebounding frizzen is to make it harder to rebound. I’d heat the upper arm to almost orange and bend the last half inch of the working arm upward more. This makes it hard for the frizzen to rebound. Then harden and temper.

I agree with rich rebound is usually due to a weak frizzen spring, add tension.

M. De Land · Monday at 4:35 PM

SammyP said:
Thank yoy so much, will do this!

Other options for folks who are not trained in spring making are to add a helper spring or leverage block to fit into the turn back of the frizzen spring. Both will increase spring tension without the need to anneal , re-bend , harden and draw temper.

SammyP said:
Will do this as well. Thank you sir!

FlinterNick · Monday at 4:45 PM

ChuckJonesWagon said:
In giving this a little more thought, you may also want to remove a small amount of material on the frizzen where I have the arrow pointed. Again, don't overdo this. Keep the surface on the back flat and even. Since that is the part of the frizzen that's rebounding from the spring a little longer arc may help prevent that. But before you do that I'd adjust the toe first.

View attachment 352289

I woudln’t chamfer or reduce the pivot foot if there is a rebound. That will make it worse, that usually helps to slightly lighten the tension for a fast action, but you’re always better off working on the spring.

ChuckJonesWagon · Monday at 5:10 PM

FlinterNick said:
I woudln’t chamfer or reduce the pivot foot if there is a rebound. That will make it worse, that usually helps to slightly lighten the tension for a fast action, but you’re always better off working on the spring.

If you look at my picture, I’m suggesting to remove a small amount of material from that front “tail”. Not the foot. I suggest that as if the frizzen isn’t opening enough it may be helping the unwanted rebound.

FlinterNick · Monday at 6:18 PM

ChuckJonesWagon said:
If you look at my picture, I’m suggesting to remove a small amount of material from that front “tail”. Not the foot. I suggest that as if the frizzen isn’t opening enough it may be helping the unwanted rebound.

Not opening enough isn’t the same a rebound issue.

If a spring is not opening usually the leaf spring is too strong and needs to be lightened.

Send me a PM I have few locks i’m fixing now, I’ll send you some demo’s as an example, rather than debate, I can share some personal stuff

Need help tuning lock

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