- Joined
- Apr 10, 2012
- Messages
- 642
- Reaction score
- 506
Even the furniture is getting loud here...
Ruger Old Army
- Thread starter trad_bowhunter1965
- Start date
Help Support Muzzleloading Forum:
- Joined
- Dec 25, 2011
- Messages
- 9,475
- Reaction score
- 4,640
- Joined
- Mar 23, 2021
- Messages
- 2,911
- Reaction score
- 6,217
A 45 LC loaded hot will outperform a 44 mag no matter how the 44 is loaded. Use any measurement you like the 45 LC is the go-to cartridge for performance, at least against the 44.
They can be changed of course but I've done work on a Walker with a Red Dot sight on it.
Mike
just finished a back yard session with my 1858 stock sights. 200g conical. off the back steps first shot hit a 35yrd 5" plate then two 5" plates at 25yrds and one six inch plate @ 40yrds and two shots on paper @ 50 yrds one of which was a bullseye.. that 200g conical hits the steel harder than my .357 mag. with 158g soft points. I have an eotech and its awesome but it's mounted on a DPMS
I fixed mine and I am no 45D!
I can solder and run a Dremell. ROA has by far the best sights, 47 Walker is good now, the Model 57 not so much.
wow
I've never ever seen that before. I love 
that. now I believe I could actually hit something with that!!!! I know it ain't period correct but I'm not much into all that. I'm glad people are interested in period correct.Have no problem with that at all.But I like to hit what I shoot at too.Thank you MIKE for showing this.
if you fellas are going to keep arguing in circles y'all are gonna start to look silly
I had to be spot on accurate for my work, so now I can relax, Blackhawk, Redhawsk, tomatoe tomato, potato potaeato, whatever.
Casull was not originally a gun guy and he had no expertise in it, so maybe he brings the cartridge and whoever else the gun stuff. Shrug. It was a Cartridge first regardless. Keith was not a gun mfg guy either.
You miss the point. There never was an open top effort to meet 44 Mag levels (well until 45D!).
What we do know is that a top strap type can be beefed up to the horrid 500 S&W (yes Horrid, I had the misfortune to be next to one at the range, even the guys buddy would not shoot the danged thing).
Of course they took the Top Strap way out. They had the experience of design and materials. They wanted to sell guns not prove you could make an open top work. They only would have gone to Open Top if a closed top could not be made to work. If you have any smarts you are not going to spend that kind of money for a restricted platform for what they wanted (swing out cylinder) unless that had to, reality of S&W.
Black Powder guy blew up a 58 Remington with smokeless, weakness in the cylinder from what I can tell. You want to bet that a S&W 500 cylinder is made of really good stuff and metal treatment? While barrels and frames probably are all to the same the same SA spec for the Italiain makers, cylinders do not have to be, they are stand alone and you can easily use lower spec metal.
Probe the edges and all guns will fail someplace. Yes even Open Top. 45D does not say they are indestructible, nor that they are S&W 500, but they are far more capable in modern variant than Urban Legend would lead you to believe. Unmentionable cylinder makers are going to go steps beyond because its an all too easy platform to abuse.
And as an aside, I got some 45LC to run through the Howell. 1000 fps, so much for labeled as Cowboy load! Not everyone has access to an accurate Chronograph. And yes they were shot side by side with a 44 special from same mfg labeled Cowboy load and they were 850 fps (more or less Cowboy load FPS). Powder looks a lot like the old AL-8
If reports are correct (sometimes there is an axe to grind or other reasons why things fail like wrong loading of Concials) then the 47 Walker Cylinders had a weakness and did fail.
Fix that and you then find the next area. Kind of like the V Tail Bonanza. The tails began to break off, so they reinforce that, which then lead to breaking off further forward. Beef up the whole rear and it stopped. Of course they found a T tail was lower cost so that was the mfg solution.
In short, hats off to 45D for the enlightenment and a thumbs down for those who diss the work and what he has revealed about the Open Top design. Sour grapes come to mind.
- Joined
- Mar 23, 2021
- Messages
- 2,911
- Reaction score
- 6,217
No... not the same, are you really that dense
How could the cartridge be before Casull when Casull was the one who developed it?
You don't know anything about the guy do you.
I don't diss his work, although I have him on ignore. The reason being is his insistence that the open top is a stronger design which is patently ridiculous. There are numerous examples in other fields where "C" shaped presses etc. are not as strong as "O" frames.
Once again, when Casull and his partners developed Freedom arms they could have used an open top if it was stronger but they knew better. Beef up the open top all you want, I like them but they will never do what a top strap will do.
And since you are being obstinate I will let you join 45D in the old ignore lock box.
Edit......, The more I think about it I realize that some of you have not done very much reloading especially for heavy hitting large bore handgun cartridges, do some more research.
Last edited:
- Joined
- Nov 16, 2009
- Messages
- 4,620
- Reaction score
- 8,342
Wow… sure is getting deep around here.
dang. u said that right. honestly I don't know much about this stuff. I like to keep it simple because I'm simple lol. but if I want any of my black powder revolvers to be worked on I know I will be asking 45D. same as if I have a question about them I'm asking him too.ive been reading a lot on here and looks like to me that he would be to whom I ask. all I'm going say
- Joined
- Apr 10, 2012
- Messages
- 642
- Reaction score
- 506
That furniture is getting pretty nasty and arrogant!
Oops, modified that remark as some people do get preference on here.
Oops, modified that remark as some people do get preference on here.
Last edited:
According to Wiki, Richard Casul, gunsmith, developed wildcat cartridges for the 45Colt looking for 2,000 feet/sec. He, along with two other men, in 1958 developed the 454 Casul. Freedom Arms in 1983 introduced a five shot revolver for the round.
I really don't understand the bitterness expressed towards 45D - then again, people do tend to get attached to their pet theories, rather than truth and facts.
I really don't understand the bitterness expressed towards 45D - then again, people do tend to get attached to their pet theories, rather than truth and facts.
Hey guys and gal !! Thanks for the kind words and appreciate that y'all "get" what the testing is all about. It definitely isn't about MAKING the open-top platform into something it never was but it definitely is to find out what a modern rendition IS !!! I believe Sam would get a real kick out of the capabilities of his ot design. The best thing about the "spirited" discussions is the information that the new reader may pick up and trying to answer the SAME questions in a little bit different way may help someone REALLY get a grasp!! (Cynthialee I agree !!! We probably DO sound "silly" and have for some time!!!! 
).
I'll keep on with updates as this journey continues and I really appreciate the "powers that be" for allowing a "now and then " airing of thoughts and exchanges on this inappropriate subject ( but it really is important to see what our favorite revolvers are truly capable of and can indeed step into the "modern world" with equal relevance!!).
Mike
).I'll keep on with updates as this journey continues and I really appreciate the "powers that be" for allowing a "now and then " airing of thoughts and exchanges on this inappropriate subject ( but it really is important to see what our favorite revolvers are truly capable of and can indeed step into the "modern world" with equal relevance!!).
Mike
Keep posting brother!!!! I enjoy it very much.Hey guys and gal !! Thanks for the kind words and appreciate that y'all "get" what the testing is all about. It definitely isn't about MAKING the open-top platform into something it never was but it definitely is to find out what a modern rendition IS !!! I believe Sam would get a real kick out of the capabilities of his ot design. The best thing about the "spirited" discussions is the information that the new reader may pick up and trying to answer the SAME questions in a little bit different way may help someone REALLY get a grasp!! (Cynthialee I agree !!! We probably DO sound "silly" and have for some time!!!!
I'll keep on with updates as this journey continues and I really appreciate the "powers that be" for allowing a "now and then " airing of thoughts and exchanges on this inappropriate subject ( but it really is important to see what our favorite revolvers are truly capable of and can indeed step into the "modern world" with equal relevance!!).
Mike
- Joined
- Dec 25, 2011
- Messages
- 9,475
- Reaction score
- 4,640
True, the old 45 Colt case will out preform the .44 Mag with less pressure and more velocity with a heavier slug. The only deficiency if it can be called that is the case could use a bit larger rim diameter although it has proven to be entirely adequate as is.
Ross Siegfried posted an article I have some where that when ever he bought a Freedom Arms revolver he always ordered it chamber in .45 Colt rather than the .454 Cassul which uses a small rifle primer and is a tenth of an inch longer, because he could run the same velocity out of the Colt case cheaper. I always wondered about that contention though.
Last edited:
