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Ruger Old Army
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Sufferin Sucatach !
Reading skills !!!!!! I said the open-top platform is stronger than the REMINGTON!! Never said it was THE strongest platform !!! Geeeesh !!!
And, THEY'RE BOTH "O's". "Are you really that dense" ?!!! (
)( it's your buddy's fault!! I've been telling him to quit calling them "open frames" . . . you're confused I bet . . . )
Oh my goodness, back on page "7" I listed a bunch of revolvers that can't (aren't safe to) shoot 23K psi ammo ( Brian Pearce's list, not mine) , but my 1860's are OPEN TOPS and they CAN!!! NEVER SAY NEVER!!!
( that's really why you put me in the "boo box" isn't it?!!) Reading comprehension is a tuffy I know . . . I know my Dragoons are a good bit bigger than the SAA (not to mention the Ruger New Vaquero's) but hey . . . they're OPEN TOPS and they eat 45C +p's like candy!!! Never say nev . . . !
Mike
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I have no animosity toward 45D and am sure he is a fine gunsmith working on open tops...lots of people praise his work.
I wish he would come down from his high horse and admit reality, that's all.
Sir, what does - "these open top revolvers can shoot ammo on a regular basis that "this group (not just one revolver) of TOP STRAP revolvers" cannot" . . . have to with reality, other than to verify that in fact the Open-top platform can OUT PERFORM some top strap revolvers?
You can't have it both ways!!! (Talk about a "high horse"!!)
Mike
Remember, Colt had the Root revolver that predated the Remington. They shelved their Top strap . . .
Bottom line, the top strap is cheaper to produce which is why it is with us today.
Mike
Edit - Sorry, "mistyped" !
After reading MDL' s I saw my error. Colt shelved their Top strap (Root pistol) in favor of the open-top. Gee MDL, you should have caught that!! You should know the Root was dropped . . .
Thanks for the heads-up on my mistake!!
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And the closed top allows for swing out cylinders and faster reloading ,better sights much more stable platform etc. Face reality. the open top colts are wicked cool but they were not the last word in revolver design. even the old Remington allows for fast cylinder switches. the only thing the open tops really have over the Rimingtons is style and Ballance. The Remington is a step in the modern direction. Better sights, fast cylinder switches, very few cap jams without modifications. the colts are beautiful and nostalgic and handle well. The whole conversation about which is better is silly. They both suck compared to a modern Redhawk or Black Hawk. I was shooting my old Security six .357 yesterday that I bought new 44 years ago. Its a great pistol and light years ahead of my Remington. I just can't afford modern cartridges.... and I really want a new .45LC blackhawk...
It won't outperform the 44 mag. If you're gonna hot load a .45LC in a Ruger, then it's only fair to hot load the .44mag in comparison. I used to think the same for decades about the .45LC, but ballistically, it's not true. I even turned away some nice single actions because they were in .44 mag instead of .45LC. However, I'm still more partial to the .45LC....just because that's what I settled on in my youth with Rugers. If I had a Colt SA in .45LC, not sure I'd be hot-rodding that frame.
The next argument is bloodletting; the .45 cuts a bigger hole than the .44 mag. That's only a small incremental difference. Honestly, if I was being charged by a bear, I'd probably want the .44 mag in my hands over the .45LC. But that would depend on bullets too and shot placement......and don't forget the 'panic' factor.
If you want your argument to to have any validity, you would need to talk with a number of handgun hunters that go after dangerous game with the .45LC versus the .44mag. And certainly Elmer Keith if alive would favor the .44 mag. He could have enhanced the .45LC but instead pushed for the .44mag calibration.
Kevin
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any game that tells you that it can tell the difference between gitten shot with a .44mag and .45lc is lying through it's dead teeth. At that point it's all about shot placement. Its always all about shot placement. big hole in the dirt got nothing on a small hole between the lookers unless of course the small hole bounces off the skull. Can't go too small but going too big if you sacrifice your ability to hit under stress is just as bad. Find the balance of power, speed and accuracy. Stick with the biggest thing you can handle really well under stress.
When I dug into my safe this fall before hunting season I pulled out a Savage 110 with a scope on it that makes a really big bang and my 81yr old #4Mk1 which I have had since I was 14years old and makes a kind of big bang. Both of them hit the bullseye no problem resting on the hood of my truck at 200m. When I started banging away free hand at 100m I was much better with the old trusty. no scope but much less recoil and many more hours and years in my hands. still plenty of umph to drop anything I would ever shoot. and you don't have to worry about the scope fogging up.
When I dug into my safe this fall before hunting season I pulled out a Savage 110 with a scope on it that makes a really big bang and my 81yr old #4Mk1 which I have had since I was 14years old and makes a kind of big bang. Both of them hit the bullseye no problem resting on the hood of my truck at 200m. When I started banging away free hand at 100m I was much better with the old trusty. no scope but much less recoil and many more hours and years in my hands. still plenty of umph to drop anything I would ever shoot. and you don't have to worry about the scope fogging up.
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Looks like your very slowly coming around to admitting design superiority in closed frames while trying to save as much face as possible ! That's a good tactic, you'd make a good politician !Reading skills !!!!!! I said the open-top platform is stronger than the REMINGTON!! Never said it was THE strongest platform !!! Geeeesh !!!
And, THEY'RE BOTH "O's". "Are you really that dense" ?!!! (
( it's your buddy's fault!! I've been telling him to quit calling them "open frames" . . . you're confused I bet . . . )
Oh my goodness, back on page "7" I listed a bunch of revolvers that can't (aren't safe to) shoot 23K psi ammo ( Brian Pearce's list, not mine) , but my 1860's are OPEN TOPS and they CAN!!! NEVER SAY NEVER!!!
I know my Dragoons are a good bit bigger than the SAA (not to mention the Ruger New Vaquero's) but hey . . . they're OPEN TOPS and they eat 45C +p's like candy!!! Never say nev . . . !
Mike
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Get the Bisley in 5.5 with adjustable sights if you can find one, you won't be sorry ! Southsport had a limited run of them made and I just happened to find one in 45 Colt at a local gun store. It's the best looking and fitting single action Ruger ever made in my view.
I would add that Emer Keith grew up ranching, riding horses, and in what was left of the Old West. He was proficient in most firearms and calibers, both antique and newer. He killed everything worth shooting in NA. I think he later had exploits in Africa as well.
When he pushed for the .44mag caliber, he was already proficient in the .45LC. If he thought bloodletting between the already established .45LC and his proposed .44mag caliber made any difference, he would have advocated for a belted 45LC magnum. He did not.
I have a Desert Eagle(older Israeli model) in 50AE. It would be fine for bear with the right bullets. But I don't relish the idea of a semi-auto in the heat of the moments with a bear charging. I've shot it a lot. In the beginning, it took forever for the brass and bullets to become available for that caliber as the factory rounds were crazy expensive, and the factory bullets were not meant for dangerous game. I've never had it jam....but there's always a first time.
What I'm saying is that in bear country I only carry a double-action or single-action revolver as a side arm. I'll put my life in with those two choices.
Kevin
When he pushed for the .44mag caliber, he was already proficient in the .45LC. If he thought bloodletting between the already established .45LC and his proposed .44mag caliber made any difference, he would have advocated for a belted 45LC magnum. He did not.
I have a Desert Eagle(older Israeli model) in 50AE. It would be fine for bear with the right bullets. But I don't relish the idea of a semi-auto in the heat of the moments with a bear charging. I've shot it a lot. In the beginning, it took forever for the brass and bullets to become available for that caliber as the factory rounds were crazy expensive, and the factory bullets were not meant for dangerous game. I've never had it jam....but there's always a first time.
What I'm saying is that in bear country I only carry a double-action or single-action revolver as a side arm. I'll put my life in with those two choices.
Kevin
Nice try MDL, you and your buddies should know enough history to know that Colt dropped the Root after a short run. Thanks for highlighting my mistake, I've edited my post.
Mike
Ps- if it was so superior, why would they drop it?!!
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A #4 MkII , No? One of our more famous bear guides here in AK (Phil Shoemaker) uses a 357 Mag with hard cast lead bullets for his walk about bear protection. He says he can hit what he's aiming at much better than with a 44 mag or 45 Colt. His son and daughter (also bear guides) use the same cartridge,
Nope, you're just as confused as he is . . . They're both an "O" !! See? I keep telling you it's not an "open frame" explain what you mean ? The open top frame INCLUDES the arbor, so what is open about it?
Mike
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