.025 pillow ticking?

[sdhunter]

So I busted out the old .54 gpr after being out of the game for about 5 years. Took it to the range with the same old pillow ticking I bought at a fabric store years ago. I lube with olive oil like I always did and shot .530 balls as always and accuracy was excellent just like I remember it. Anyway, I am getting ready to order more pillow ticking. I always thought it was .018, but I measured the last bit I had tonight to verify and it mics out at .025. The rifle never seemed that hard to load. I guess the question is- am I hurting anything by loading with this thick of a patch and will I lose accuracy if I go down to a .020 or .018 patch?

 

[Grenadier1758]

You might loose some accuracy by going to a thinner patch. You should find the 0.025" patching in the canvas cloth section. Wash the new patching well and enjoy your return to traditional muzzleloading.

 

[Larry (Omaha)]

You won't know until you try it. Why change if you know .025 works? My 54 cal uses .535 with a .018.
Larry

 

[sdhunter]

Well great. If I’m not hurting anything then I will stick with .025 pillow ticking. Thanks for the quick replies.

 

[renegadehunter]

All you're possibly hurting is your palm when you smack the short starter! Ha ha.
Best of luck in ordering some that ends up being the same thickness, that'd make me a bit nervous. But I happen to have a JoAnnes within 15 minutes of me, I know some are more lucky and live a bit further from "civilization".

 

[Notchy Bob]

I would agree with the majority, that you won't hurt anything using the patching that you have been using. Another thing is that thicker patching, at least in theory, holds more lube.

Beyond that, I have a couple of comments. Most of the fellows here seem to get their patch material at a fabric store, and we've had repeated discussions regarding fabric thickness. There's nothing wrong with that. This is a discussion board, after all. However, there are several outfits, such Eastern Maine Shooting Supplies, Inc. and RMC/Ox-Yoke who produce excellent fabrics of consistent thickness specifically for shooting. They help support our hobby. I use their products. I have no issues with Jo-Ann's, but I like to support the people who support us.

Not all ticking is created equal. Some has the stripes printed on (I think Crazy Crow's ticking may be printed) and some has the stripes woven in. You can tell which is which by looking at the backside. The type with the woven-in stripes is usually considered of better quality. The dealers who sell patching made of blue-striped ticking usually advertise it as .018" thick, and they usually state that you don't need to wash it before using. I checked what I have, from Eastern Maine Shooting Supplies, and it is spot on at .018". There is a red-striped ticking that is reportedly thinner, but you don't see it much. October Country does sell both colors, stating the red-striped ticking is .015", while the blue is .018".

Best of luck to you!

Notchy Bob

 

[hanshi]

You seem to be very successful with the combination you've been using and I see no real need to change anything. I've used my share of pillow ticking and found it to be about .015" or a bit less when compressed. I later went to "mattress" ticking which is thicker and near .018" compressed. Canvas duck was a bit thicker still and worked well.

But for a long time I've been using heavy, unbleached canvas and like it best of all. Uncompressed it measures close to .030" and about .024" when I squeeze the caliper jaws as hard as I can squeeze with my thumb and fingers. Are the measurements you posted compressed or just measured as is? I like tight loads for a number of reasons including higher velocities, better accuracy and the fact that it cleans the bore each time a prb is seated. This allows almost unlimited shooting without wiping the bore. In other words, if it ain't broke then don't fix it. Need something better, that's the time to experiment.

 

[Stykbow]

@sdhunter go to Walmart. When I was working out a good ball & patch combo for my GPR I went there with my calipers. The blue striped and red striped ticking at the one I went to measured something like .025 and .0275. Don’t remember which was which thickness.

 

[Stumpkiller]

I always thought it was .018, but I measured the last bit I had tonight to verify and it mics out at .025. The rifle never seemed that hard to load. I guess the question is- am I hurting anything by loading with this thick of a patch and will I lose accuracy if I go down to a .020 or .018 patch?

That is mattress ticking (no lie). The rule of thumb I like for traditional muzzleloaders is that if you can seat it on the powder it will come out again when fired with no problem. You are swaging the ball, so soft lead is a preference. Accuracy is what your rifle choses, not a statistical survey from other shooters. Only way to know is to try.

 

[sdhunter]

You seem to be very successful with the combination you've been using and I see no real need to change anything. I've used my share of pillow ticking and found it to be about .015" or a bit less when compressed. I later went to "mattress" ticking which is thicker and near .018" compressed. Canvas duck was a bit thicker still and worked well.

But for a long time I've been using heavy, unbleached canvas and like it best of all. Uncompressed it measures close to .030" and about .024" when I squeeze the caliper jaws as hard as I can squeeze with my thumb and fingers. Are the measurements you posted compressed or just measured as is? I like tight loads for a number of reasons including higher velocities, better accuracy and the fact that it cleans the bore each time a prb is seated. This allows almost unlimited shooting without wiping the bore. In other words, if it ain't broke then don't fix it. Need something better, that's the time to experiment.

When I pinch the calipers as hard as I can with one hand I get .015.

 

[Lippy984]

My recommendation is just be sure you’re consistent with your measuring. When measuring thousands of an inch, one person may get .018” where someone else may come up with .0185 or .019”. I’m not sure if you’re using veneer calipers, but I would recommend using a micrometer to be more consistent with fabric

 

[thompson50]

https://cooperstowntradingpost.com/products?keywords=Pillow+ticking+I get .025 ticking from here

 

[Stumpkiller]

When I pinch the calipers as hard as I can with one hand I get .015.

What do they read if you repeat that with nothing in the jaws?

 

[oldwood]

I pinch mike all my Patching. Eastern Main ,and ox yoke mike out the same............Mike I use is not a dial mike w/the bird beak ,but the mechanical type that is tightened w/ thumb and for-finger and actually gives a pinched reading for actual thickness of cloth , like when the patch is between the barrel lands and the lead ball. In this case most published thickness written on the package , is a couple thousandths thicker .. For instance , if pkg. says .018 , the actual measurement is .015. The pkg. labeled .015 , is actually .013. I don't trust any printed thickness labels...................oldwood

 

[Stumpkiller]

I was taught to use my Starrett 230 with the ratchet click clutch gently - as the jaws deform and give false readings if you honk down on the tension.

 

[Notchy Bob]

I was taught to use my Starrett 230 with the ratchet click clutch gently - as the jaws deform and give false readings if you honk down on the tension.

Exactly.

The dial calipers are handy, but that Starrett micrometer with its ratcheting knob, along with consistent technique, will give the most precise and consistent measure. I was taught not to "force" my tools, and I have never squeezed my calipers. Squeezing the jaws of a caliper sounds like it could potentially damage the tool. If this technique is used, it would probably be a good idea to check the "zero" and jaw alignment periodically.

Measurement of patch material is a lot like measurement of powder charges. It doesn't really matter what the precise measurement reads, as long as you get the same measurement for every powder charge and for every batch of patch material. Proper and consistent use of one's measuring tools is essential.

Notchy Bob

 

[hanshi]

When I pinch the calipers as hard as I can with one hand I get .015.

Also try to use the same amount of force when you squeeze with the thumb & forefinger so your measurements are always consistent. Be sure the keep the caliper steady so you won't twist the jaws.

 

[Grenadier1758]

I was taught to use my Starrett 230 with the ratchet click clutch gently - as the jaws deform and give false readings if you honk down on the tension.

Yes, the threads on a micrometer are quite fine and too much pressure can not only deform the jaws but also stretch the threads. I measure for the basic slip thickness and the click clutch may put a bit more pressure for a couple of thousandths. The cloth will have to compress far more than the pressure we can apply.

 

[CapPopper]

The only thing with using the ratchet on the mics (unless it's a type I'm unfamiliar with) is that you are not getting a compressed measurement..... You need them good and snug cause fabric density can vary..... If you don't bear down on it a bit you can get 2 materials that measure the same and are actually different compressed..... Dutch speaks on it several times in his book and it is absolutely true.