100 yards vs 200 yards

[cannonball1]

I have put all the information on another topic, but I will give the information again. You guys out there have helped a lot to get where I'm at. I am shooting a 45 cal. 1 in 42" twist made by Oregon Barrel Co., 70 grains of BP, .442 PP bullet (400 Grains), cleaning after every shot. I have got to the point I have perfected the patch and shot at 100 yards.

Here's the problem: At 100 yards I can consistently shoot that 1" group, but at 200 yards I cannot keep them in a 8" group. I am not the greatest shot in the world, but with a scope and lead sled it is not my shooting - IT IS THE GUN OR LOAD. Help please!!! Give me some ideas. Thanks

 

[cannonball1]

That should read 1 in 24" twist.

 

[nhmoose]

Twist to slow IMHO posted same time you corrected.

Try a heavier load ladder the powder charges up and see what the does.

 

[Patocazador]

I can't even see horns at 200 yds. without binocs.

I don't try for more than 125 yds. maximum.

 

[cannonball1]

This is my target rifle. Hopefully I can find a combination that will get me out to 500 yards.

 

[mooman76]

Maybe Idahoron will chime in. He has done extensive work with PP bullets.

 

[Grenadier1758]

Do you have a velocity for your load?

If the bullet starts just above the speed of sound and is still close to the speed of sound at 100 yards, you get good consistent performance. There is a stability phenomenon that takes place as the projectile slows through the speed of sound. As the ball slows, the ball is momentarily unstable and becomes more stable as it slows. You are perhaps better off with a large looping trajectory that keeps the bullet below the speed of sound for the time of flight.

 

[Idaho Ron]

I have put all the information on another topic, but I will give the information again. You guys out there have helped a lot to get where I'm at. I am shooting a 45 cal. 1 in 42" twist made by Oregon Barrel Co., 70 grains of BP, .442 PP bullet (400 Grains), cleaning after every shot. I have got to the point I have perfected the patch and shot at 100 yards.

Here's the problem: At 100 yards I can consistently shoot that 1" group, but at 200 yards I cannot keep them in a 8" group. I am not the greatest shot in the world, but with a scope and lead sled it is not my shooting - IT IS THE GUN OR LOAD. Help please!!! Give me some ideas. Thanks

When I developed my 500 S&W bullet and load combo I was good at 100 yards. Sub 2" and I was happy. I stepped back to 200 yards and the bullets tumbled.
I was shooting 90 grains of powder. I backed it off to 80 and the bullet was good to go. There is several things that could be doing this. Your scope, or mount, or a combo of the two. Or your load. In my case I didn't have a scope to be off. So that reduced my variables.
Another thing is it could be you. You might just need some trigger time to really get in the swing with the rifle. I see a lot of guys try to look up quick to see where they hit. Remember to follow through. Long shots require more thought on follow through.
Make adjustments like powder and record your changes. If they don't help try something else. You know the rifle will shoot. Now to find what it likes the best. That might be a heavier or a lighter bullet too.

 

[cannonball1]

I'm sure it is not the scope or me or it would do it at 100 yards. 70 grains is not much powder to decrease and the bullets do not look as if they are tumbling. It is a solid straight hole in the target. I have already tried the 450 grain bullet and that did not help.

More powder maybe?? Have you seen where more powder would stabilize the bullet at longer ranges?

 

[tenngun]

what sort of sights do you have? Some may be the sight picture. At 200 yards there is little difference between two three or four inches in point of aim, made worse by primitive sights. A one inch group at 100 yards may well translate to four inches at two hundred normaly.

 

[cannonball1]

It has a 6X scope. The four ft square target has a large horizontal line from one side to the other and same with a vertical line. I can see it just fine. I am convinced it is not the scope nor me. Constant 1" groups at 100 yards and the fact I can see the target well tells me that. One thing I might mention is they are in a group and not a string.

 

[tenngun]

Ssscccooopppeee, well now thars you problem :haha:

 

[hanshi]

With a somewhat slow twist of 1-24", It might be a good idea to go to a lighter bullet, one not as long. The longer the bullet, the faster the twist has to be to stabilize it in flight. It sounds like you aren't that far from a good 200 yard load if the bullets go straight in and don't tumble.

 

[cannonball1]

I may have to try that. The Miller Coefficient Factor suggests a 380 grain bullet. I am shooting a 400 grain bullet which is not far off. Most of those who seem to be in the know are saying the 400 grain should be fine. Thanks for the suggestion, I may end up going that way. I am going to try going from 70 grains to 80 grains first.

 

[Billnpatti]

I was not familiar with the Miller Coefficient Factor so I read up on it. It is a nice handy equation but the one thing that I see missing from the equation is the ballistic coefficient. As we all know , the higher the ballistic coefficient the longer a bullet will maintain its velocity. A spitzer style bullet will have a higher ballistic coefficient than a flat pointed bullet and will be much farther down range when it hits the transonic speed zone. As was pointed out by Grenadier, a bullet looses much of its stability when it hits the transonic zone.

 

[Loyalist Dave]

Well if you're going to throw lead out to 200 yards and beyond for targets you're probably going to need to read The Muzzle-Loading Caplock Rifle, by Ned Roberts. I'd study it, apply it, and then if you're still having problems check back with the forum.

LD

 

[Rifleman1776]

they are in a group and not a string.

Looks like you have answered your own question. The scope needs adjusting. At 100 yards it is close enough but off just enough to put your poi off somewhat. Range weather conditions (wind) might be a factor also. Do you use wind flag indicators?

 

[cannonball1]

Holy Cow loyalist I feel like a first quarter freshmen after a PhD his first year. That book was like reading the old sears and roebuck catalog. My eyes are crossed. I only wanted to go to the tool section and not having to see the bedding, furniture, and underwear section before I found part of what I was looking for.

I go out early in the morning as the sun is coming up and I can get a decent 200 yard group and in the middle of the day I can not, but in the middle of the day I can get a 1" group at 100 yards. It just does not make sense. I do not shoot when there is wind. As you guys have suggested - keep increasing or decreasing powder.

 

[TFoley]

Those of us over here who shoot long range - that's out to 1200 yards, just like the long-range shooters in the USA, have rifles with very sharp twists - 1:20 - 1:22 - as settled by Messrs Whitworth and Rigby over 150 years ago.

Shooting bullets of around 400 - 500gr, often paper-patched, but not always, over loads of between 90 and 110gr of FFg, it is a whole new ball game.

I suggest that, in addition to all the good advice here, the OP looks up long-range shooting/muzzleloading.

tac

 

[cannonball1]

I was not familiar with the Miller Coefficient Factor so I read up on it. It is a nice handy equation but the one thing that I see missing from the equation is the ballistic coefficient. As we all know , the higher the ballistic coefficient the longer a bullet will maintain its velocity. A spitzer style bullet will have a higher ballistic coefficient than a flat pointed bullet and will be much farther down range when it hits the transonic speed zone. As was pointed out by Grenadier, a bullet looses much of its stability when it hits the transonic zone.

but remember when it was written transonic wasn't in the dictionary and I only thought about it in "jet" form. Make's sense, but the Miller formulas does too except that flaw.

By the way I have ready anything I can find about Long-Range shooting/muzzleloader and the generalities on most of it just does not help. A person could read day and night on a lot of this stuff of very little meat on the problem area. To the last writer, "Am I missing some specific site? Would very much appreciate some specific place I can drill my attention too".