10ga Powder/Shot loads

[paulvallandigham]

My opinions are also based on experience, Mr. Brooks. What seems obvious to you, is not obvious in fact. That you continue to accuse me of making up answers is what is so insulting. Disagree with me if you wish-- I concede that people have different experiences-- but don't call me a liar.

I really don't think that experience is any substitute for a full education. Experience is certainly important, but I have seen people repeating the wrong techniques over and over again, with the same wrong results, in several disciplines through my life.

When I find my experience differs from someone else, I invite them out to the range so we can show each other what we are doing, and See why we are getting different results. The Process has never failed me, and we always find out that the failure is in communication, NOT in actual performance of guns or anything else. One or both of us is, we find immediately, NOT telling fully what he is doing, or NOT UNDERSTANDING what the other person says he is doing.

I recall going through this with a guy who was claiming his smoothbore could send a Patch lead ball deeper than my own tests indicated with a pure lead PRB. At the range, he finally admitted that he was using wheelweights to cast his balls, as he was complaining about the wrinkles on his lead balls, and how to stop that. As for the penetration tests, his harder lead balls DID penetrate further, but not " twice as far " as mine did. Then, he admitted that he had previously only fired them into dirt, and had not used a measuring stick to make his comparisons, etc. He actually enjoyed finding out exactly how his gun performed, and how I set up the testing process.

We remained good friends, and swapped information until he moved out of state.

 

[Mike Brooks]

That you continue to accuse me of making up answers is what is so insulting. Disagree with me if you wish-- I concede that people have different experiences-- but don't call me a liar.

I said I was done, but I think this is relevant. Here's a link where you were trying to spread on the BS thick and got caught by another guy who actually knows the answers to the question at hand.
More BS
2nd to the last post by FRS is very telling when it comes to your BS level. :haha:

 

[paulvallandigham]

Histories disagree, and are all full of errors. Histories are being revized and re written all the time. One of the reasons I enjoy this forum is that I find others who have seen newly discovered or better written materials on history than I read years ago when I was in college. Its nice to find out, actually, that so much erroneous information appeared in the materials available to me those many years ago. My statements, which you declare to be MORE BS are based on those early books, and were not made up by me. If you follow the thread, I ask the writer if he has found information that other colonies, other than Pennsylvania passed laws concerning rifles. AND, not to belabor the problems in doing historical research, I note that its very difficult to obtain research materials on each of the 13 colonies at even major libraries. You have to go to individual state libraries, and scour the texts, as they are still not well indexed, nor are the significance of these ordinances, and laws, understood by most librarians. Sometimes, if you know the right source, it can be borrowed through the inter-library loan services, but it can takes weeks, and even months to obtain it.

You apparently don't do historical research, Mr. Brooks. I note in another thread that you rail at another author because he has not yet published his book. Books are like babies, but different in that each represents the unique perspective of the author. ONLY the AUTHOR can decide when he is ready to submit a manuscript for publication. Its flattering to know that people like you are waiting impatiently for the book to be available, but that does not write the book in a form that the author accepts with grace.

I would think you, of all people on this forum would understand the pressure of beginning such a project, since you posted that significant series of photos 2 years ago on building a gun. I am sure as you look them over again that you are happy with the work on one hand, but also think you could have used more pictures, or taken better pictures for the series, on the other hand.

I will finish with the only compliment I intend to extend to you, until you stop being the south side of an north bound mule. You do very good work. If you had produced a 10 gauge fowler for Mr. Dane, AND IF HE HAD SAID IN HIS FIRST POST THAT THE GUN WAS JUG CHOKED, I would have said nothing on this thread. Choking changes a lot of things in how a smoothbore performs. Other than general loads and their expected velocities- there tends to be general agreement with the data I have read in my 3 sources-- the length of the barrel will even affect velocities, and would tend to require that cautionary advice. From my experience seeing long barreled smoothies shot, versus shorter barrels, I don't think the increase is as dramatic as some want to suggest however. Good day.

 

[Mike Brooks]

Histories disagree, and are all full of errors. Histories are being revized and re written all the time. One of the reasons I enjoy this forum is that I find others who have seen newly discovered or better written materials on history than I read years ago when I was in college. Its nice to find out, actually, that so much erroneous information appeared in the materials available to me those many years ago. My statements, which you declare to be MORE BS are based on those early books, and were not made up by me.

Precisely my point about your knowledge of these long barreled jug choked guns. Your sources are out dated and you're simply out of the loop. The fellows I've been building these big guns for are really on the cutting edge of relearning how these guns should be loaded. Most of my knowledge comes from their time consuming work at the pattern board and in the field. I've tested most all the loads they have sent the information on. This stuff isn't written in any book, it's a lost art.

You apparently don't do historical research, Mr. Brooks. I note in another thread that you rail at another author because he has not yet published his book.

I'm not "railing" in that thread. I know Wallace Gusler personally and have talked with him many times. He's easily one of the most knowledgeable people in the field. I was reflecting my impatience in a humorous tone about the length of time he's taking to finish up his book. My impatience isn't likely to influence him one way or the other. :haha:

I would think you, of all people on this forum would understand the pressure of beginning such a project, since you posted that significant series of photos 2 years ago on building a gun. I am sure as you look them over again that you are happy with the work on one hand, but also think you could have used more pictures, or taken better pictures for the series, on the other hand.

I'm completely neutral on that project. I only did it because of questions that continually arise on the gun building forum. I don't take great pride in it nor do I dislike it. It is what it is and it was done to help other folks. No big head on my part.

If you had produced a 10 gauge fowler for Mr. Dane, AND IF HE HAD SAID IN HIS FIRST POST THAT THE GUN WAS JUG CHOKED, I would have said nothing on this thread.

That I seriously doubt! :haha:
Let me make one thing clear, I never called you a liar as you've stated several times in this thread. I just simply suggested you don't know what you're talking about. I don't believe you intend to deceive, you just have opinions on everything, whether you know anything about the subject or not.
What we ought to do is put each other on our ignore lists..... :wink:

 

[Britsmoothy]

Well now, I think it is a shame that there is this bickering between two folk that both like the smell of BP.
It matters not a bit to me who started what and or why.
What does matter we all like shooting in all it's different forms and also we are all different.
I for one have not detected any BS.
If someone was advising something real dangerous or dumb then the BS alarms would go of but no I don't think that happened.
I am glad this feller has a new 10g to shoot and look forward to hearing about his hunting as I enjoyed my 10 when I had one. I also enjoy posts and comments from Paul as much as I do from Mr Brooks, their differances make for good cross referance amonst others.
Anyways nobody was abusive and showed great restraint for which I am greatfull.
Good smoke to ya's all.

Britsmoothy.

 

[Mike Brooks]

With all of this discussion on this subject I'm inspired to share in detail what I and some of my customers have found out about loading flint fowling guns over the past 30 years. I've got a mongo honey doo list today, so it ain't happening today, hopefully tomorrow.

 

[Dane]

Mike,

I for one, and looking forward to it with bated breath.

Thanks Mike