#11 Caps

[Keppy]

I was out and about to a yard sale. I come across a couple #11 cap tins about half full. One was red in color and these words were on it. Vorderlader, Zundhutchen, Dynamit Nobel. The cap primer has a green color inside. The other tin has AL on it and France. The tin is green in color. These cap primer are silver color inside. I have tried both and work as well the other brands I have. They go bang. Just wondering if anyone know anything about these. The tins are just like any other style. They are in good shape so will keep as a souvinor.

 

[G. W. Gill]

Years ago the Dynomite Nobel was the best around. I preferred them. Very hot.

 

[paulvallandigham]

Navy Arms imported them from Europe. I bought some from their booth at Friendship. They worked okay. I thought they were very tight on my reproduction Colt 1851 revolver, and sometimes they would not go off on the first strike. I swithced to CCI at the time, as you could not get Remington caps easily at the time I needed them, and CCI was making a big push to introduce its caps to ML shooters. Then, the CCI caps were considered the better caps. I bought a couple of thousand, and still have a few hundred left more than 20 years later.

I can't think of any reason why those old caps won't shoot for you. I do think you should check the velocity of your loads with different caps, so you can tell how " hot " they are compared to what you have been using. Not only do you get an increase in velociy, but you have the added problem of the hot primers pushing the PRB forward in the breech before the powder gases begin to drive the ball out the barrel. That increases the length of the chamber, and causes variations in pressure, and increases the SDV, opening groups on target. Paul Matthews is writing about this same issue with modern primers in cartridge cases. If you talk to the slug gun shooters, they use the smallest, and lightest caps and primers to ignite their powder charges in those big slug guns because of the problems caused by " Magnum " caps, and primers.

The magnum caps and primers were invented to ignite the substitute powders. If you are shooting BP, there is no need to use anything other than standard primers or caps. Remember, those in-l#$% actions are designed to shoot sabots, with heavy pistol BULLETS in them in front of the substitute powders- not the lighter PRB. With more friction from the sabot, and the weight of the sabot and pistol bullets, it takes more energy to push them forward on the firing of the Percussion Cap. That PRB will move when the Sabot and Pistol bullet won't. Leave the " Hot " percussion caps for what they were intended to be used for those other guns, and use standard percussion caps for tradtional sidelock actions shooting BP.

 

[arquebus]

The Dynamit Nobel (RWS) red labeled caps are the #1075 & are still available. They also make a cap with a green label (a #55 from memory), the only difference that I can tell is that the red labeled ones are a little shorter. Although, to add to the confusion, they also make a 1075-Plus which has a green label on a red plastic 'tin', I assume they are a hotter cap than the regular 1075. I bought a couple of thousand of the 1075-Plus caps a few years back when a Seattle gun store was going out of business & have yet to use them. After reading Paul's post, above, I might try them in my .451 bullet gun & see how they compare to the standard 1075s. I currently use the RWS #1075 on my percussion rifles & CCI #11 on my pistols, they are both excellent for reliability. Never had any dealings with the Fench-made caps though.

 

[Blizzard of '93]

So the principle of a heavier projectile increasing pressure applys even in muzzlers? And how about coarse grade of powder, does the PRB actually outrun the 'pressure wave' due to less resistance and movement caused by a hot cap? :hmm:

 

[Keppy]

Thanks for the INFO. I have reloaded centerfire for some years now and know what primers can do for acuracy. I have been using them up for practice and have not seen much change in impact. I will have to get my chrony out someday and see what there doing. I shoot a 54 Cal. PRB

 

[paulvallandigham]

I doubt that any PRB can " out run " the pressure curve,as its darn near instantaneous. But Paul Matthews believes his testing shows that the bullets, ( or balls) do move forward enough to give a variation in the length of the chamber so that chamber pressure, and velocity are affected, and not equally with each shot. Hence, the variations in velocity and the increase in SDV. I would expect to see some evidence of stringing at targets out at 100 yds, and further, firing from the bench, from this cause. It does not matter much in hunting situations, and certainly there are very few shooters today who can hold a gun well enough off-hand to shoot consistently at 100 yds, with a PRB. But when you are trying to shoot 10-X's, at 100 yds, off the bench, it makes a difference. a ten in some of those matches will earn you a 5th place award, maybe!