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12 bore rifle twist rate

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im having a 12 bore rifle built and i want to shoot heavy conicals. Will they strip out if pushed d fast? Tell me if i can u see heavy conicals.i already know a prb will take anything i need.thats not the point.thx
 
Whether they strip depends on more variables than you list so I doubt anyone would be able to answer.
If the spin is too fast, the lands too shallow or the lead to soft then yes they will strip.
On the other hand if the bullet (and potentially patch) and rifling match the powder charge you won't have an issue. Maybe the bullet will even stabilise
 
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If you paper patch then, they can take a fast twist. It also depends on what you mean by a fast twist and how stout a load you plan to shoot. Like Lawrence stated, lots of variables come into play.
 
Whether they strip depends on more variables than you list so I doubt anyone would be able to answer.
If the spin is too fast, the lands too shallow or the lead to soft then yes they will strip.
On the other hand if the bullet (and potentially patch) and rifling match the powder charge you won't have an issue. Maybe the bullet will even stabilise
1in28 rifling with s 700 grain conical, tell me what i need to have to make this bullet fly straight.225 grs powder
 
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If you paper patch then, they can take a fast twist. It also depends on what you mean by a fast twist and how stout a load you plan to shoot. Like Lawrence stated, lots of variables come into play.
1in28 with 700 grsin conicals, hot losd 225grs triple7. Wh a t do i need to have a bullet gun instead of a prb gun?
 
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Something with that large a bore and that heavy a bullet will have recoil that can take the fun right out of shooting.

+1

IMO, with a 72cal bore, a PRB will do the job on just about anything - unless, of course, you want to do it because you can . :)
 
Something with that large a bore and that heavy a bullet will have recoil that can take the fun right out of shooting. What kind of mega fauna are you intending to shoot?
I already have sn 8 bore i shoot 375grs.and a 835grsin prb so i wanted a 12 bore i could shoot conicals with. Im s deer hunter but hunt boar too.
 
Might wanta do a little research/calculations on yer twist rate. 1 in 28 in a bore that size it’ll almost be like the bore is threaded. Might need somethin’ just a tad slower.
 
1in28 with 700 grsin conicals, hot losd 225grs triple7. Wh a t do i need to have a bullet gun instead of a prb gun?
Sorry I dont have the knowledge on that one.
Basically the twist required is related to the bullet length and the velocity. I believe the formula is hiding in Google somewhere.
As @bubba.50 said 1:28 seems quick but a modern 12g slug rifled barrel has a 1:36".
Reality is velocity is unlikely to exceed 1200fps and more like 1000fps. However if it is built as a late percussion rifle with high pressure breach then maybe you could push it.

The normal 12g slug is either 350grain or 440 grain so pretty light but as it is hollow based it is longer than a PRB.
For a 12g the PRB would be 550grainish so a 700gr is not really a heavy bullet.

How long is the bullet compared to a modern 12g slug?
 
I had a Purdey 12b rifled single shot in the early 2000's. I can't remember if the twist was 1:70 or 1:90. The conical was hollow-based and weighed 430 grains. It did not use a patch, it was a full-bore conical. I only measured velocity with a chronograph once and it showed 1240 FPS. I used 100 grains of powder. At the time I had no idea how much powder to use and I picked 100 because that is what I saw as a common charge for black-powder projectiles. The fixed sights were a tad high at 50-yards with that load. 1:28 rate is quite different. A 700 grain projectile is quite heavier and 225 grains of powder, that sounds excessive. What does the barrel maker say? I think that is the person to answer your question.
 
Professor Sir Alfred George Greenhill of the British Royal Military Academy, who devised a formula for determining twist rate which, simplified here, multiplies the square of the bullet diameter by 150 and then divides the result by the length of the bullet, and looks like this: (C x D2) ÷ L = T.

C is a constant, 150; D2 is bullet diameter multiplied by itself, L is bullet length and T is the result, twist rate. Using it is simple; let’s stick with our 5.56 mm/.223 Rem. example. The bullet diameter is .244" and length of a 55 grainer is .740". Following Greenhill:

  • Step 1—Finding D2: .244 x .244 = .05953
  • Step 2—Finding C x D2: 150 x .05953 = 8.9295
  • Step 3—Divide result by bullet length: 8.9295 ÷ .740 = 12.06

So, 1:12.06-inch, rounded to 1:12-inch, is our standard twist rate for the .223 Rem. 55-grain bullet.

Doing the same for an 80-grain bullet 1.075" long:

  • Step 1—Finding D2: .244 x .244 = .05953
  • Step 2—Finding C x D2: 150 x .05953 = 8.9295
  • Step 3—Divide result by bullet length: 8.9295 ÷ 1.075 = 8.306

Rounded, 1:8-inch twist is Greenhill’s indicated twist rate for 80-grain bullets. As shooters have discovered, the reality is that a 1:8-inch twist can be marginal for a .223 Rem. 80-grain bullet, working better with some makes than others, and that a 1:7-inch twist may work better. What’s up with that?

Plug and play math
Maynard chart

John Maynard converted Greenhill’s formula into a chart in 1962.

The shortcoming of Greenhill’s formula is that the professor developed it for elliptical (football-shaped) subsonic lead projectiles (he was more into rifled cannons). Though it applies surprisingly well for rifle bullets with muzzle velocities up to about 2,800 fps (for higher velocities, we can substitute 180 for 150 in the constant C, which results in slower twist rates), it isn’t perfect. Others have offered their own (pardon the pun) twists on Greenhill. The Miller twist rule, formulated by Don Miller and published in 2005, refines Greenhill a bit by including bullet weight. The tweak takes into account the lighter-for-length jacketed, hollow point and homogeneous metal bullets invented since Greenhill developed his formula.

Though Greenhill and Miller may appear complex to those who believe numbers and letters are a devil’s mix, they are both actually simple “plug n play” tools where you plug in your variables, such as bullet length, into the correct place and then let a simple hand calculator do the math. If that’s still too much math, a twist table by John Maynard published in the 1963 Gun Handbook provides an instant, follow-the-lines visual graph. “The graph will not work properly for bullets of other than all-lead or lead-and-gilding metal construction,” Maynard accedes, “but who shoots solid bronze pills today?”

WinGyro by gunsmith John Knight is a free software program that performs twist rate calculations. There’s also the McCoy “McGyro” algorithm drag/twist calculator. You might try the Bowman-Howell software calculator, which requires simple inputs of bullet length, diameter, muzzle velocity and a provided specific gravity density value assigned to copper, brass, lead or steel (the longer version of Greenhill’s formula included specific gravities, as well). It improves upon Greenhill’s formula, which lacks a velocity term, but apparently is not as accurate as Miller across a broader range of muzzle velocities and bullet shapes.

As a final matter of curiosity, how fast do bullets spin, anyway? That depends upon twist rate and muzzle velocity. A 5.56 mm/.223 Rem. bullet fired at 3,000 fps from our National Match AR-15 with a 1:7-inch twist exceeds 300,000 rpm. While we don’t need to know that, we do need to know what bullets our rifles will stabilize, and if we don’t have computers or calculators handy, we can figure it out reasonably well ourselves with pencil and paper—and Greenhill’s formula.
 
Many English gunmakers of the mid 19th century found that with heavy charges big bore rifles could only stabilize a heavy bullet with VERY slow twist. 1-90 to 100 seemed to work well. With faster twist to prevent stripping they had to use low powder charges. African hunters of the time complained that while they were accurate with the light charge did not have enough power to penetrate really big game.
 
Might wanta do a little research/calculations on yer twist rate. 1 in 28 in a bore that size it’ll almost be like the bore is threaded. Might need somethin’ just a tad slower.
I found out thst same thing. 1 in 48 is fast enough for super heavies...i should be fine with a 1in66 twist itl stabilise prb and like weighted conicals.youre right on the money.
 
The 1851 UK Govt Minie Rifle would be close to your 12 bore . T Foleys 1 in 72 ' sounds right. But Forsythe advocated one in 8 foot & one in 12 foot pitches in 16 bore patched ball rifles that shot relatively flat and had the best knock down . If I had Tigers to worry about Ide go that route. He also considerd that wide grouves and narrow rounded lands where a desireum . He lived & breathed big game ballistics and was isolated in the Highlands of Central India being a timber assessor . Ironically he survived the rigors of the steaming forests only to die young going home on a furlough .Sods law ! .Bet the Tigers appreciated that . If your going big bore It was Samuel White Baker or maybe' Old Sheraki' Levison who had the 4 bore ? two grouve firing a 4 onze Shell .His boys calling it the' Cannons Child' . I bet they had a few curt words for whoever it was as they had to carry it !...' .Boy's as we used to call then always had names for who they worked far . I worked in Zulu land building a rail extension through to Richards Bay, Natal in 1970. I had four assigned me plus some times got the surveyors crew keeping a dozen' Boys' occupied was a task . But you got fond of them . .They called me Boss' Moojella ' ( If just to them selves ) . I found out it meant the name of some Bassuto King who never combed his hair ! . Well better than 'M Dogs breath' I suppose .I shouted then all tins of spicey fish when I left . But I digress .
Rudyard
 

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