12 NIB Colt revolvers!!! (???)

[Skychief]

An aquaintance of mine recently showed me his collection of "second generation" Colt cap and ball revolvers. He said that he purchased each one the year they came out (~early 1980's, maybe the 1970's?). He has at least a dozen of them, Each is a different model. Each of them are absolutely NIB. What I am wondering is what might these be worth? Are certain models more sought after?

I put "2nd generation" in parenthesis because that is what I am calling them, but, admit that I know little about Colt bp revolver history. I suppose you gentlemen know what pistols I speak of in any case.

Can you all let me know what these are worth? Either the entire collection of twelve or by the different models (Walker, Army, Navy, etc, etc)? Which model(s) are most desireable?

Thanks for sharing any information! :thumbsup:

 

[Robert an saa fan]

That is a big question. :grin:

Prices on these vary a lot depending on where they are presented for sale.

Desirability is in the eye of the buyer. One buyer may want a fluted cylinder 1860 Army. Another the 1862 Police, or a Walker, etc. In general, the 1860 Army, rebated and roll engraved or fluted cylinder is likely the most popular followed by the 1851 Navy.

The following link to author Dennis Adler's article provides good information:
http://gunsandammomag.com/cs/Satel...ap+%26+Ball+Resurrection?packedargs=pagenum=1

In terms of rarity, the 1982 stainless steel 2nd Generation Colts are quite rare. Colt advertized they would make only 2000 of each model. They made far less. Zero in some models. They made seven (7) stainless 1861 Navies, about 1300 stainless 1860 Armies and about 700 stainless 1851 Navies.

I had never seen, in person, a stainless 1851 Navy until about two years ago. Bought one last summer.

At a gun show last month a blue 2nd Generation Walker as new in the slightly shopworn box went unsold priced at $750. A like new early blue 1851 without box went unsold for $450.

For more values suggest you search closed auctions on sites like gun broker and auction arms for prices realized. You might also check auction houses like Rock Island, Greg Martin, etc.

Sorry if this is not well written, it is past bedtime.

 

[mykeal]

Colt's Manufacturing company began making the 2nd Generation guns in 1971 with the 1851 Navy; the 3rd Model Dragoon was produced starting in 1974; both were discontinued in 1976. These were the only two models produced in that time frame, under what was called the 'C' Series. There were variations of each done during that series.

The 'F' Series began production in 1978 with the 1860 Army. Here are the values from The Blue Book of Modern Black Powder Arms (Fifth Edition, 2007) for the standard issue, 100% condition guns:
1847 Walker: $1,000
1st Model Dragoon: $650
2nd Model Dragoon: $700
3rd Model Dragoon: $675
Baby Dragoon: $625
1851 Navy: $650
1851 Navy (blank cylinder): $800
1851 Navy (stainless steel): $1,250
1860 Army: $725
1860 Army (electroless nickel): $1,750
1860 Army (fluted cylinder): $750
1860 Army (stainless steel): $850
1861 Navy: $700
1861 Navy (stainless steel): $7,000
1862 Pocket Navy: $575
1862 Pocket Police: $625

There are only 10 different models above; with variations in finish and special cylinders the count is 16; adding up the full set of 16 comes to $19,325, obviously dominated by the stainless steel 1861 Navy.

There were several Special Editions which command premium prices also.

Blue book values are only a guide. Actual prices can and do vary considerably in either direction. In addition, a premium of as much as $150 each can be realized if the gun comes with the original box in good condition.

 

[Skychief]

Thanks you both for your very thoughtful replies. They are much appreciated!!! :thumbsup:

 

[Dphar]

Colt's Manufacturing company began making the 2nd Generation guns in 1971 with the 1851 Navy; the 3rd Model Dragoon was produced starting in 1974; both were discontinued in 1976. These were the only two models produced in that time frame, under what was called the 'C' Series. There were variations of each done during that series.

The 'F' Series began production in 1978 with the 1860 Army. Here are the values from The Blue Book of Modern Black Powder Arms (Fifth Edition, 2007) for the standard issue, 100% condition guns:
1847 Walker: $1,000
1st Model Dragoon: $650
2nd Model Dragoon: $700
3rd Model Dragoon: $675
Baby Dragoon: $625
1851 Navy: $650
1851 Navy (blank cylinder): $800
1851 Navy (stainless steel): $1,250
1860 Army: $725
1860 Army (electroless nickel): $1,750
1860 Army (fluted cylinder): $750
1860 Army (stainless steel): $850
1861 Navy: $700
1861 Navy (stainless steel): $7,000
1862 Pocket Navy: $575
1862 Pocket Police: $625

There are only 10 different models above; with variations in finish and special cylinders the count is 16; adding up the full set of 16 comes to $19,325, obviously dominated by the stainless steel 1861 Navy.

There were several Special Editions which command premium prices also.

Blue book values are only a guide. Actual prices can and do vary considerably in either direction. In addition, a premium of as much as $150 each can be realized if the gun comes with the original box in good condition.

SFAIK Colt never made any of the percussion guns.
They were Uberti parts imported in and assembled by H&R(?). Some were pretty poor.
The 3rd gen Colt SAAs had Italian internals identical to Ubertis right down to hardness tester dimples on the main springs. Frames were often rough cast internally especially in the advance hand gallery. They would eat through the advance hand spring in 50 rounds or so in some cases.
The Colts generally have the good deep rifling and are marked right. Other than that they are Italian.
Dan

 

[Skychief]

Colt's Manufacturing company began making the 2nd Generation guns in 1971 with the 1851 Navy; the 3rd Model Dragoon was produced starting in 1974; both were discontinued in 1976. These were the only two models produced in that time frame, under what was called the 'C' Series. There were variations of each done during that series.

The 'F' Series began production in 1978 with the 1860 Army. Here are the values from The Blue Book of Modern Black Powder Arms (Fifth Edition, 2007) for the standard issue, 100% condition guns:
1847 Walker: $1,000
1st Model Dragoon: $650
2nd Model Dragoon: $700
3rd Model Dragoon: $675
Baby Dragoon: $625
1851 Navy: $650
1851 Navy (blank cylinder): $800
1851 Navy (stainless steel): $1,250
1860 Army: $725
1860 Army (electroless nickel): $1,750
1860 Army (fluted cylinder): $750
1860 Army (stainless steel): $850
1861 Navy: $700
1861 Navy (stainless steel): $7,000
1862 Pocket Navy: $575
1862 Pocket Police: $625

There are only 10 different models above; with variations in finish and special cylinders the count is 16; adding up the full set of 16 comes to $19,325, obviously dominated by the stainless steel 1861 Navy.

There were several Special Editions which command premium prices also.

Blue book values are only a guide. Actual prices can and do vary considerably in either direction. In addition, a premium of as much as $150 each can be realized if the gun comes with the original box in good condition.

SFAIK Colt never made any of the percussion guns.
They were Uberti parts imported in and assembled by H&R(?). Some were pretty poor.
The 3rd gen Colt SAAs had Italian internals identical to Ubertis right down to hardness tester dimples on the main springs. Frames were often rough cast internally especially in the advance hand gallery. They would eat through the advance hand spring in 50 rounds or so in some cases.
The Colts generally have the good deep rifling and are marked right. Other than that they are Italian.
Dan[/quo

Well now, color me stunned! It's sad when you have to dig to find who made what, whatever the name brand these days. I am flabergasted that this was the case back when "Colt" "made" these revolvers! Thanks Dan. I am less enthused about the possibility of buying any or all of this collection now.

 

[LeMat1856]

.
. june 20 / 8:35pm


from the previously quoted source, "5th edition blue book of modern black powder arms", the last line in the 2nd generation synopsis reads as follows:

"...all percussion models manufactured from 1971 through 1982, either by colt or its subcontractor, are regarded as authentic colt pistols and not italian replicas..."
by john b. allen, edited by s.p. fjestad

donation: $.02

~d~

ps. if he has an 1851 navy/3rd model dragoon berman cased set 1 of 50 special edition, let me know - i'll buy it straight up. (last msr $10,500; 100% mint in box $8,500.)

 

[Dphar]

They are still the best out there, the early ones anyway. The later "signature" are not as good they say.
Dan

 

[Russ T Frizzen]

Colt had nothing to do with the Brooklyn built Signature Series third gen guns.

C and F series Second Generation guns used rough forgings and castings from Uberti for frames, barrels and such. They were very carefully machined and tuned at Iver Johnson's New Jersey plant and then shipped to Colt for final inspection and according to some sources, the C series guns were also marked and blued there--hence the super high quality finishes on these early guns. Colt and all knowledgeable collectors consider them to be genuine Colts as are the F series guns. Values on these revolvers would probably stabilize at higher levels if misinformation about their lineage didn't pop up periodically on the web and people didn't get them confused with the third generation stuff.

 

[mykeal]

I provided the source of the information I posted. I made no claim beyond that. I would very much appreciate it if, after quoting my post, you would provide your sources. It's only fair.

 

[Russ T Frizzen]

You are absolutely correct, mykeal. The C and F series second generation revolvers are genuine fully pedigreed COLTS. If Colt says that they are Colts then they by God are real Colts! There are no Italian proof marks to be found on them because they were made in America by American gun makers. In fact, it may be that the C series were built in Hartford by Colt. One look at the fit and finish and the beautiful bluing on these revolvers and you know Colt did the work. The slick actions are unlike anything found on an Italian gun or a third gen gun for that matter.

 

[Mulebrain]

I would check Gunbroker, for the latest sales prices on the pistols. The market is always changing, and this is as close as your going to get!

Now if he wants to sell the entire collection :hmm:

 

[irataylor]

I will stand by my 51 c series, there is no better repro out there!

 

[Russ T Frizzen]

Damn right! And that silver plate on the trigger guard and backstrap makes that pretty bluing and those case colors really pop out! :thumbsup:

 

[DOUBLEDEUCE 1]

Mykeal, do you happen to know if there was ever a Baby Dragoon made in stainless? I am not sure if a revolver I saw was a Baby Dragoon or not, it was I think approx .31 cal and left in the white (stainless?). It was marked Colt and all the numbers etc matched. One explanation I heard was that some of the guns were left in the white to be sent to the engraver's shop. :hmm:

 

[LeMat1856]

.
. june 22 / 02:45am


from my book (5th edition blue book of modern black powder arms), there is a second generation, "f" series, baby dragoon in .31cal, 4" octagon barrel, without loading lever, 5 shot, roll-engraved with texas ranger and indian scene, etc.. 1,352 mfg. between 1981-82.

estimated prices:
100% mint in box: $625
98 % $450
90 % $300
80 % "shooter" $225

last msr: $405

there is also a baby dragoon 1 of 500 limited edition .31 cal, 4" barrel, etc., with walnut french fit presentation case , gold velvet lining, and accessory set, 500 mfg, 1979-80.

100% mint: $975
98% $700
90% $n/a
80% $n/a

~d~

ps. "second generation" actually consists of "c" series, "c" series limited/special edition, "f" series and "f" series limited/special edition - about 75 variations in all - according to this book.

 

[DOUBLEDEUCE 1]

LeMat, thanks for the info about the revolver. I'll have to make a trip maybe to see if the thing is still around.