1784 odd looking Saint-Étienne

[acavdragoon]

Not exactly sure what I purchased here other than its a French 1777 model St. Etienne, with a dated stock of 1784.
There is only one band spring on the rear band. The middle band is missing, with no evidence of a band spring carved into the wood. Though there is a darkening of the stock where the middle band use to be. The front barrel band spring is also missing with no evidence of it ever being carved in. The front barrel band that’s on there now looks to have been cut from an original.

The muzzle has the bayonet lug on the bottom of the barrel. About an inch and a half from there is an extra metal flat protruding from the barrel just in front of the stock. This is a first for me, I’ve never seen this before. Any idea what it is?

Though the stock has decades of dirt and filth, below that looks to be a fine walnut stock that’s in great condition.

Any suggestions on how to approach the missing band springs? Do I replace the middle and front bands? Or leave everything as is?

 

[Millford_P]

Can you post a photo of the entire musket? It will be easier to help you figure out to repair it when we can see everything in context.

For starters though, the Rifle Shoppe will probably have whatever barrel bands you'll need.

 

[acavdragoon]

Yes, here are some additional pictures.

 

[wiscoaster]

I would just clean it up and not try to replace missing parts, unless you can get original parts. That's probably worth more as-is in original condition than it is if you try to restore it with modern repro parts.

 

[acavdragoon]

I would just clean it up and not try to replace missing parts, unless you can get original parts. That's probably worth more as-is in original condition than it is if you try to restore it with modern repro parts.

I’m kind of leaning that way right now.

 

[Millford_P]

Looks like a Model 1777. The middle barrel band is missing (maybe the spring too, I can't tell from the picture). The front barrel band was cut short for some reason, and the rammer is replaced. Otherwise it looks like it's all there.

I also agree, that it may be worth more as it is now without getting replacement parts.The replacement parts would probably run you at least a hundred bucks, plus labor if you don't do it yourself.

Could have been a Civil War import - lots of French muskets got converted to percussion and used throughout the war. With a light coat of oil or wax it should be a nice original piece for the wall.

 

[acavdragoon]

No, not going to be a wall hanger. An extremely few gets wall hanger status around here. It’s going to be a shooter. Might even convert it back to flintlock, don’t know yet.
There is no band springs for the middle and front bands. There is no cutouts in the stock to even accommodate them. The rear band is the only one that has a spring. Almost like the 1717 type fore end stock.
I’ll be cleaning it up this week to see where I go from there.

 

[Flintlock1640]

Please don't add springs to the middle and front band, they aren't supposed to have them. Rear band has a spring, middle band is friction fit (screws down), front band should have a screw that screws directly to the barrel. A true 1777 not modified to AN IX is hard to find and well worth proper restoration

 

[Flintlock1640]

The 1777 is the first lock in the world made with interchangeable parts. It should be pretty easy to reconvert if you desire. Finding original bands will be impossible. I've been looking for those two bands at least five years for one of mine. To do it right you would be better off getting the castings from rifle shoppe. They won't do any harm until you can source original and a complete gun is always worth more even with a few replacement parts. A good 1777 should bring a couple grand easy. I'm very jealous lol

 

[acavdragoon]

Please don't add springs to the middle and front band, they aren't supposed to have them. Rear band has a spring, middle band is friction fit (screws down), front band should have a screw that screws directly to the barrel. A true 1777 not modified to AN IX is hard to find and well worth proper restoration

Yes! I got that figured out now when I received my book French Military Small Arms by Didier Bianchi last week. It’s really nice to learn something new about these old guns! I’ve already ordered replacement middle and front bands from The Rifle Shoppe. I’ve been searching for originals too, I haven’t found anything yet either.

 

[Flintlock1640]

Just in case you are interested, there is a seller in France selling original pans for these 1777s. These are for the year 9 but the pan should be the same. https://www.ebay.fr/itm/17467280039...2K8XQVUGf7v9Hi/mgX8jcGNA==|tkp:Bk9SR-Df6butZA

 

[acavdragoon]

Just in case you are interested, there is a seller in France selling original pans for these 1777s. These are for the year 9 but the pan should be the same. https://www.ebay.fr/itm/174672800394?_nkw=silex+platine&itmmeta=01J5NVTDZBVPE48G44YHE658HZ&hash=item28ab4f6a8a:g:l8MAAOSwB6JgRlr3&itmprp=enc:AQAJAAAA8HoV3kP08IDx+KZ9MfhVJKnmcMteWT3ouqOYFH/3+X/UzV86/1gyXgfhLHFavjwrRPFsrJwNDBzisCmgY1vTdRynblDUXBSrw+6Zpzrzv6BU+In05f5hl8+HyWRDLv8+RL/cbYvi5ouwJ1ptPOvUjlqIaoTQUboDzEWig4PHJTermbaUVgZtL7TxiV3oP71LZfrfRtu6A1hszOyOT0n5mAFAYQm95uQjbI9xBdPqEiVhFyB0/bRXhTG0LRLWemZWaM33rOs1FNE70RouUYmub71P8mVERTfhdZlvl1kDfg2K8XQVUGf7v9Hi/mgX8jcGNA==|tkp:Bk9SR-Df6butZA

Super! Thank you very much!

I ordered all the items to get this lock converted to a flintlock from The Rifle Shoppe as well as a ramrod and sling swivels. The musket been cleaned and conserved, just waiting on parts now.

 

[acavdragoon]

I’m going to have to brush up on my French I see!