17th C. English Dog-Lock Musket

[BCarp]

Recently finished for me! Repro based on an original piece (pic included) from the Dunster Castle armoury, an English musket from the second half of the 1600s. Dog-lock from The Rifle Shoppe (early type with lateral sear), .75 caliber 44" Hoyt barrel, walnut stock, hand-forged furniture. Built by Kevin Dougherty of Brackney, PA. Came out lighter than I expected and shoots real nice...!

 

[MAPMFF]

Very nice!!

 

[Flint62Smoothie]

BRAVO, huzzah!

Yes indeed ... an early arm would be of large bore and a long barrel - good on you!

Try heavy loads of 1Fg in paper cartridges ... you might be pleasantly surprised, as smoothies LOVE velocity! But also look up my extensive posts on load development, as it's also possible to find a suitable lower charge loads for targets.

 

[Youngblood]

Thats really nice. So the dog has to be used to hold half cock, is that how it works?

 

[smoothshooter]

Thats really nice. So the dog has to be used to hold half cock, is that how it works?

I think it is more of a safety feature.

 

[BCarp]

Thats really nice. So the dog has to be used to hold half cock, is that how it works?

The tumbler has a half-cock notch. The dog, or "back ketch" was a back-up safety feature; a hold-over from even earlier type locks.

 

[BCarp]

BRAVO, huzzah!

Yes indeed ... an early arm would be of large bore and a long barrel - good on you!

Try heavy loads of 1Fg in paper cartridges ... you might be pleasantly surprised, as smoothies LOVE velocity! But also look up my extensive posts on load development, as it's also possible to find a suitable lower charge loads for targets.

I've initially tried .715 ball in a paper cartridge with 100 grains of 2Fg (part of which goes towards priming), and .735 with wads, with accurate results. It WAS a bit stout for target shooting, though!

 

[BCarp]

The original has a unique rear sight, which has been duplicated.

 

[Grenadier1758]

I've initially tried .715 ball in a paper cartridge with 100 grains of 2Fg (part of which goes towards priming), and .735 with wads, with accurate results. It WAS a bit stout for target shooting, though!

Basically, your load is okay. I know that the initial pour out of a paper cartridge was the priming charge in the pan and the remaining powder in the cartridge was poured down the muzzle. There is no harm or foul today to use a separate flask for priming after the loaded cartridge is seated. We only prime from the cartridge when shooting blanks. When target shooting, prime last.

 

[rickystl]

Hi Carp

Congratulations. A great looking early dog lock style musket. Just love that lock. The lock has the "earlier" style hammer where the cock and tumbler shaft are one piece. A likely carry-over from the snaphaunce. As well, the use of the horizontal sear. Very cool.
I've read that some of these early style dog locks had the second notch cut in the tumbler (making the dog catch a sort of secondary safety) and other locks that did not have the cut (making the dog catch the only safety). The second notch cut being a refinement.
The dark stained stock and semi-antique finish look just right for this transition musket. For some reason I've always thought that dark stains look good on pre-1700 muskets and pistols. My guess for your musket would be about the end of the first quarter of the 1600's.

Rick

 

[Rudyard]

Recently finished for me! Repro based on an original piece (pic included) from the Dunster Castle armoury, an English musket from the second half of the 1600s. Dog-lock from The Rifle Shoppe (early type with lateral sear), .75 caliber 44" Hoyt barrel, walnut stock, hand-forged furniture. Built by Kevin Dougherty of Brackney, PA. Came out lighter than I expected and shoots real nice...!

I would call it 'English lock with dog' a true' dog lock' would have no half cock provision .Nice gun anyway.
Regards Rudyard

 

[Flint62Smoothie]

I've read that some of these early style dog locks had the second notch cut in the tumbler (making the dog catch a sort of secondary safety) and other locks that did not have the cut (making the dog catch the only safety). The second notch cut being a refinement.
The dark stained stock and semi-antique finish look just right for this transition musket. For some reason I've always thought that dark stains look good on pre-1700 muskets and pistols. My guess for your musket would be about the end of the first quarter of the 1600's.

I would call it 'English lock with dog' a true 'dog lock' would have no half cock provision. Nice gun anyway.

Dating
From the attached article:

"The results indicate that, contrary to current opinion, there is no undeniable proof that the English-lock was manufactured prior to 1650. My findings suggest that the early seventeenth-century date for this lock type has been based on questionable historical data and unrecognized lock conversions."


English Lock or DogLock?
Most interesting, as this 157-page research thesis (as attached) presents evidence that the use of the term 'doglock' is argueably one of the most misued terms in firearms chronology.

"Another modern term, 'dog-lock’, has been especially confusing in its application to technologically distinct mechanisms. The dog-lock has been described as every lock with a back-catch (Gooding: 117), an English-lock with a back-catch (Faulkner:65) , and a specific type of lock characterized by an internal horizontal sear and no buffer for the cock (Eaves 1970:296). "It is ultimately up to the arms historian . . . to provide a reliable and comprehensive thesaurus of gun terms from which everyone who has to deal with gun parts may benefit. . ." (Puype: 7). Until this is accomplished, it will be necessary for each researcher to provide a glossary clearly defining not only the elements comprising the gunlocks but what he means by the types of gun discusses."

It further states that all doglocks are in fact just variations of the English Lock, being of 3 types below. Based on what Rudyard suggests above ... I would state that the OP's new fire lock is a Type 2 'English Lock'. However, does it in fact have a horizontal sear (for full cock) that projects through the lockplate? It must have one (otherwise it is a new Type 4, haha) but with the cock down as shown, I can't see any slot in the lockplate for the tip of the sear ...

English Locks

Type 1 - Horizontal Sear through the lockplate - No 1/2-cock notch on tumbler - Has a dog catch

Type 2 - Horizontal Sear through the lockplate - 1/2-cock notch on tumbler - Has a dog catch

Type 3 - Horizontal Sear, not but through the lockplate - 1/2-cock and full cock notch on tumbler - Has a dog catch

 

[rickystl]

Hi Flint

Much agree with your Post/diagrams above, as well as Rudyard's comment. It "appears" that the lock on the OP's gun would be a Type-3. But the OP would have to advise if the sear protrudes through the lock plate, or not. Can't tell from the photo.
For a long time, shooters/collectors have "loosely" called most any flintlock with an external dog-style safety a doglock. "English" lock, with it's various refinements, would be more accurate. There is also a later variation that has the cock and tumbler as separate pieces and makes use of the vertical sear with both full and safety notches. But this one is basically your flintlock that still retains the dog style safety. Just a continuous refinement of the lock making during the period I believe.

Rick

 

[rich pierce]

I think that today most call any flintlock with an external catch to be a doglock. The many earlier stages of lock development are not well known. I need to build an earlier lock with a horizontal sear just to learn how they work.

 

[Flint62Smoothie]

There is also a later variation that has the cock and tumbler as separate pieces and makes use of the vertical sear with both full and safety notches. But this one is basically your flintlock that still retains the dog style safety.

You know ... I was going to propose the hypothesis that there could be a 4th Type of variation that had the 1/2 & full cock notches on the tumbler, coupled to a vertical sear. And son of a gun ... I had one RIGHT in front of me on my desk! Albeit left-handed, this is the HUGE 7-1/4" long, banana shaped lockplate, kit #735 from The Rifle Shoppe, version of their right-handed kit #553 Cookson Doglock, circa 1680.

Type 4 - Vertical sear - Cock a separate piece on the tumber - 1/2 & full cock notches on the tumbler - and has a dog catch

I need to build an earlier lock with a horizontal sear just to learn how they work.

I can send you a Type 2 English Lock if needed ...

 

[rickystl]

I think that today most call any flintlock with an external catch to be a doglock. The many earlier stages of lock development are not well known. I need to build an earlier lock with a horizontal sear just to learn how they work.

Hi Rich

The horizontal sear on the English style locks is not immediately noticeable of how they work. My first experience with one took me a while to figure out. LOL
The miquelet style lock also uses a different type of horizontal sear. But it's more obvious how they work. And to many, more reliable than the early English variations.

Rick

 

[rickystl]

You know ... I was going to propose the hypothesis that there could be a 4th Type of variation that had the 1/2 & full cock notches on the tumbler, coupled to a vertical sear. And son of a gun ... I had one RIGHT in front of me on my desk! Albeit left-handed, this is the HUGE 7-1/4" long, banana shaped lockplate, kit #735 from The Rifle Shoppe, version of their right-handed kit #553 Cookson Doglock, circa 1680.

Type 4 - Vertical sear - Cock a separate piece on the tumber - 1/2 & full cock notches on the tumbler - and has a dog catch

View attachment 303497

View attachment 303498



I can send you a Type 2 English Lock if needed ...

LOL !!! We collect so much of this stuff that we tend to forget what we actually own. LOL I certainly know the feeling.
That Cookson lock is a good example of what we will now term the Type-4. Hold on to that Lefty lock Flint. I'm confident you will do a build with it one day.

Rick

 

[rickystl]

Here are some poor quality pics of a musket with the earliest form of a "doglock" that I've seen. Stylistically, the cock is done in a more Dutch style pattern. But note the hammer stop on the lock plate, the wide shallow pan, and the frizzen. Also with the sear through the lock plate. All carry-overs from the snaphaunce. But with the one-piece frizzen and pan cover. Interesting only a 2-screw lock versus 3.

I tried to buy this musket about 10 years ago. But the owner would not sell. Tried to get some better photos, but no cooperation. Darn.

Rick

 

[BCarp]

Dating
From the attached article:

"The results indicate that, contrary to current opinion, there is no undeniable proof that the English-lock was manufactured prior to 1650. My findings suggest that the early seventeenth-century date for this lock type has been based on questionable historical data and unrecognized lock conversions."


English Lock or DogLock?
Most interesting, as this 157-page research thesis (as attached) presents evidence that the use of the term 'doglock' is argueably one of the most misued terms in firearms chronology.

"Another modern term, 'dog-lock’, has been especially confusing in its application to technologically distinct mechanisms. The dog-lock has been described as every lock with a back-catch (Gooding: 117), an English-lock with a back-catch (Faulkner:65) , and a specific type of lock characterized by an internal horizontal sear and no buffer for the cock (Eaves 1970:296). "It is ultimately up to the arms historian . . . to provide a reliable and comprehensive thesaurus of gun terms from which everyone who has to deal with gun parts may benefit. . ." (Puype: 7). Until this is accomplished, it will be necessary for each researcher to provide a glossary clearly defining not only the elements comprising the gunlocks but what he means by the types of gun discusses."

It further states that all doglocks are in fact just variations of the English Lock, being of 3 types below. Based on what Rudyard suggests above ... I would state that the OP's new fire lock is a Type 2 'English Lock'. However, does it in fact have a horizontal sear (for full cock) that projects through the lockplate? It must have one (otherwise it is a new Type 4, haha) but with the cock down as shown, I can't see any slot in the lockplate for the tip of the sear ...

English Locks

Type 1 - Horizontal Sear through the lockplate - No 1/2-cock notch on tumbler - Has a dog catch
View attachment 303463

Type 2 - Horizontal Sear through the lockplate - 1/2-cock notch on tumbler - Has a dog catch
View attachment 303464

Type 3 - Horizontal Sear, not but through the lockplate - 1/2-cock and full cock notch on tumbler - Has a dog catch
View attachment 303465

My lock is definitely #3 of the diagrams shown. The sear does not protrude through the plate. I believe it is TRS lock #669…
Anyhow, here is the original piece it’s based upon:

https://www.rockislandauction.com/detail/83/135/documented-17th-century-british-doglock-musket

 

[TF Black]

Very nice Brian-you’ve got great taste in early fowlers!