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1842 Springfield
- Thread starter nightwolf1974
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Now correct me if I'm wrong...........
On a buck n' ball load, you would (if not using rolled paper cartridges) first put a .680 PBR w/ a .010 patch on top of your powder load, then a card, then add the buckshot on top of that, then place a over the shot wad on top of that...is that right?
On a buck n' ball load, you would (if not using rolled paper cartridges) first put a .680 PBR w/ a .010 patch on top of your powder load, then a card, then add the buckshot on top of that, then place a over the shot wad on top of that...is that right?
RjSixgun
32 Cal.
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NO, solid ball goes on top of the buck shot.
Put the buck on top of the ball if you want the the buck to spread wildly!
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Considering a paper cartridge, The .25 - .28 buck shot is loaded after the powder with the ball seated on top of the buck shot.
If you load the buck on top of the ball, you will get no concentration in your grouping.
If you load the buck on top of the ball, you will get no concentration in your grouping.
DaveC
32 Cal.
The U.S. Ordnance tested buck and ball loads with the three .310 buckshot on top of the .650 or .662 round ball and beneath it. It was found that the lead round ball was more accurate under the buckshot, but that the buckshot gave a somewhat tighter pattern if placed underneath the ball. After those tests, the recommendation was to have the large ball next to the powder surmounted by the three buckshot.
Half of the ammunition allotment issued out for a .69 smooth bore musket consisted of buck and ball cartridges. These are made of paper. One uses a string to choke off the paper behind the buckshot pellets, and behind the ball, and linen or cotton thread was used to tie the cartridge closed on the end, behind the buckshot, and at the crimp between the bullet and the powder chamber of the paper cylinder. In use, the end was torn/bitten off, the powder dumped in, and the paper-covered ball and buckshot and paper as wadding rammed down and seated on the powder. There are x-ray photographs of muskets that have been found with buck and ball loaded. In at least one, the buckshot were under the ball, but this was clearly not loaded according to the regulations. Who knows why it was done that way? Probably just a rattled musket user....
Bálazs Németh, the Hungarian black powder shooter with a youtube channel has experimental archaeology in which he patterns buck and ball on paper line infantry targets. Do take care of any target frames... The buck and ball might be very rough on those.
Half of the ammunition allotment issued out for a .69 smooth bore musket consisted of buck and ball cartridges. These are made of paper. One uses a string to choke off the paper behind the buckshot pellets, and behind the ball, and linen or cotton thread was used to tie the cartridge closed on the end, behind the buckshot, and at the crimp between the bullet and the powder chamber of the paper cylinder. In use, the end was torn/bitten off, the powder dumped in, and the paper-covered ball and buckshot and paper as wadding rammed down and seated on the powder. There are x-ray photographs of muskets that have been found with buck and ball loaded. In at least one, the buckshot were under the ball, but this was clearly not loaded according to the regulations. Who knows why it was done that way? Probably just a rattled musket user....
Bálazs Németh, the Hungarian black powder shooter with a youtube channel has experimental archaeology in which he patterns buck and ball on paper line infantry targets. Do take care of any target frames... The buck and ball might be very rough on those.
Think he does a video with cut lead too. Iirc that worked out pretty good too.
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Does anyone offer .69 cal. Minnies in various diameters?
Yes they are available and a quick search will find the mold manufacturers that offer them however unless you have a rifled '42 you will be wasting your money buying a mini mold.
I have several pertinent references on the shelf, and did a quick review. The most useful of these were Berkeley Lewis' Small Arms and Ammunition in the United States Service, 1776-1865, and Dean Thomas' Round Ball to Rimfire, Part One. The best I could gather, from a cursory review, was that the standard service load for the M1842 smoothbore utilized a .650" round ball and 110 grains of "musket powder," in a paper cartridge. There was evidently a lot of variability in the buck & ball loads. They still used the standard .650" round ball, but the number of buckshot varied from three to "twelve to fifteen .31 caliber buckshot" (Thomas, p.104). A chart from the Ballistic Products website shows .31 caliber would be the equivalent of #1-1/2 buck. A Colonel William E. Potter of the 12th New Jersey Infantry was quoted as saying "The usual cartridge carried a large ball and three buckshot, but many of the men, while awaiting the enemy's advance, had opened their boxes and prepared special cartridges of from ten to twenty-five buckshot alone" (Thomas, p.104). Thomas went on to say that U.S. specifications called for the shot to be tied off in the cartridges in tiers of three each, but Confederate cartridges were not always loaded following this protocol.
Thomas also described experiments completed at Watervliet Arsenal, which showed that the .69 caliber round ball was "less inaccurate" if the buck were loaded first, i.e. placed next to the powder, but with this arrangement, the buckshot were found to scatter "more wildly & widely than when the bullet is below them to drive them out of the barrel" (Thomas, p. 104). In other words, the projectile which is loaded last and exits the muzzle first, whether buck or ball, will be more accurate than if it were loaded first and placed against the powder.
Regarding powder, I don't know how "musket powder" compares to modern powders with regard to granule size or burning characteristics. I do know powder had improved considerably by the mid 19th century. When I attended "The School of the Soldier" in St. Augustine a few years ago, we were told to use nothing finer than FFg in the muskets, but these were flintlocks, and primed with the same powder as in the main charge. Fg would probably work in a .69 caliber percussion musket.
So, if you want to get a real sense of how the M1842 performs with buck & ball, you'll want to load a paper cartridge. I have not seen .650" balls for sale anywhere, but the .648" size is readily available, and with that much windage, I doubt .002" more or less would matter much. Use #1-1/2 buck, in tiers of three. X-rays of unopened cartridge packets illustrated in Round Balls to Rimfire appear to show three buckshot dropped in the paper roll first, then the ball, and then the powder. I believe you bite off the end of the cartridge and dump in the powder, and and either crumple or tear off the excess paper. I suppose you could then load the projectile bundle either way, buck first or ball first.
In classic military understatement, Colonel Potter described the M1842 smoothbore, whether loaded with buck and ball or just buckshot, as "...a terrible weapon at close range." I have no doubt he was correct.
If you want to experiment, please consider this forum your headquarters and report back with your findings. You may want to get one of those FAST pads for your shoulder before you start shooting, though. Or maybe hire a cocky 16 year old to shoot it for you.
Good luck!
Notchy Bob
Thomas also described experiments completed at Watervliet Arsenal, which showed that the .69 caliber round ball was "less inaccurate" if the buck were loaded first, i.e. placed next to the powder, but with this arrangement, the buckshot were found to scatter "more wildly & widely than when the bullet is below them to drive them out of the barrel" (Thomas, p. 104). In other words, the projectile which is loaded last and exits the muzzle first, whether buck or ball, will be more accurate than if it were loaded first and placed against the powder.
Regarding powder, I don't know how "musket powder" compares to modern powders with regard to granule size or burning characteristics. I do know powder had improved considerably by the mid 19th century. When I attended "The School of the Soldier" in St. Augustine a few years ago, we were told to use nothing finer than FFg in the muskets, but these were flintlocks, and primed with the same powder as in the main charge. Fg would probably work in a .69 caliber percussion musket.
So, if you want to get a real sense of how the M1842 performs with buck & ball, you'll want to load a paper cartridge. I have not seen .650" balls for sale anywhere, but the .648" size is readily available, and with that much windage, I doubt .002" more or less would matter much. Use #1-1/2 buck, in tiers of three. X-rays of unopened cartridge packets illustrated in Round Balls to Rimfire appear to show three buckshot dropped in the paper roll first, then the ball, and then the powder. I believe you bite off the end of the cartridge and dump in the powder, and and either crumple or tear off the excess paper. I suppose you could then load the projectile bundle either way, buck first or ball first.
In classic military understatement, Colonel Potter described the M1842 smoothbore, whether loaded with buck and ball or just buckshot, as "...a terrible weapon at close range." I have no doubt he was correct.
If you want to experiment, please consider this forum your headquarters and report back with your findings. You may want to get one of those FAST pads for your shoulder before you start shooting, though. Or maybe hire a cocky 16 year old to shoot it for you.
Good luck!
Notchy Bob
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Moose moulds. But, as the gentleman noted, don't waste your money on one if you have a smoothbore.
Archer 756
40 Cal.
shoot the rifle bare ball as they do in NSSA and as we talked about on form 
The N-SSA shoots bare ball in the smooth bore '42, not the rifled.shoot the rifle bare ball as they do in NSSA and as we talked about on form
it is strange that old, obsolete 69 CAL, smoothbores were given to the IRISH BERGADE? because they were IRISH, but they used the old muskets with that load and it was said that it mowed the REBLES down LIKE A SYTHE GOING THROUGH WEAT!! AUUGH!!
The Irish brigade was armed with the smoothbores by request of their commanding officers. They preferred the smoothbore for it's in close advantage.
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Well now I know what my .65 ball mold is originally for.
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