1851 Colt Navy
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Yes it can be done. You might put a little grease over the ball after they are loaded to help keep fouling soft. Some people also think it helps prevent chainfires.
Dave Rosenthal
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First, welcome to the Forum! To answer your question, yes it can be done, however it's not recommended! Most all of us here on the Forum that use C&B revolvers, do so with the use of an over-powder wad known as a "wonder-wad". The are caliber specific (.36, .38, .44&.45 same wad) and come pre-lubed to help soften-up the fouling in the barrel so as to maintain accuracy during a match. Ox-Yoke, RMC and other companies make them in various sizes.
Here's how to use them: First pour in some powder (20-25 grains, more for bigger guns like the Colt Dragoons), then put a wonder-wad into the chamber over the powder, then put the roundball over the wad. Then use the gun's rammer to squeeze it all together, being careful to use the same amount of force to obtain the same depth on each chamber. This will insure more accuracy shot to shot. Most wheelgunners have a custom loading stand to help them with this project. I do and mine was made by a very good friend. The uniformity and consistantcy that one obtains from the use of one of these stands can't be duplicated!
Whatever you do, DON'T ever put a wad over the top of the ball. The wad could get hung-up between the cylinder face and the forcing cone (due to recoil) as the wheelgun comes into battery, resulting in a jam and possibly the need to disassemble the gun at the range to clear the jam!
Enjoy making smoke and remember to always be safe and use the wads! And welcome again to the Forum!!
Dave
Here's how to use them: First pour in some powder (20-25 grains, more for bigger guns like the Colt Dragoons), then put a wonder-wad into the chamber over the powder, then put the roundball over the wad. Then use the gun's rammer to squeeze it all together, being careful to use the same amount of force to obtain the same depth on each chamber. This will insure more accuracy shot to shot. Most wheelgunners have a custom loading stand to help them with this project. I do and mine was made by a very good friend. The uniformity and consistantcy that one obtains from the use of one of these stands can't be duplicated!
Whatever you do, DON'T ever put a wad over the top of the ball. The wad could get hung-up between the cylinder face and the forcing cone (due to recoil) as the wheelgun comes into battery, resulting in a jam and possibly the need to disassemble the gun at the range to clear the jam!
Enjoy making smoke and remember to always be safe and use the wads! And welcome again to the Forum!!
Dave
Dave Rosenthal
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20 grains is a good start, but do only a cylinder's worth first to see where they print on paper and how well the balls seat on the wads. If you run-out of rammer on the downstroke, bump-up the charge to 25 grains for the next cylinder's worth. We use 25 grains of 3Fg Goex in our 1860 Army, which has a very small cylinder. The trick is to use enough to be really accurate and not so much so as to make the balls not fully seat into the chambers, causing the cylinder not to turn as the gun comes into battery. There's a magic sweet-spot where the balls hardly jump into the forcing cone, resulting in supreme accuracy and very consistant groups. May you find the sweet-spot and ENJOY!
We'll be here if you need more help!
Dave
We'll be here if you need more help!
Dave
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If you go to Cabelas web site and look in the BP section there is video directions on how to load and fire a BP pistol as well as a basic one for cleaning. And congrats for joining the adicting hobby of BP guns.
I've shot my C&B guns with and without a wad and must admit that using the wad to replace the "over-ball" grease makes shooting these much less messy.
My only complaint with the Wonder Wads is their price. I guess that's where the word "Wonder" comes from as in, "I Wonder why these little bits of felt cost so much?" :grin:
bama1157: One thing to pay attention to is the fit of the caps.
Many of these C&B guns have nipples that are for the #10 caps but those aren't always available.
The #11 caps will work but you have to pinch them down to make them a tight fit on the nipples.
When your shooting your gun it's a good idea to visually check the caps to make sure that the unfired ones didn't become loose or fall off of the nipples.
If a unfired cap does fall off of the nipple and it was on a loaded chamber there is a fair possibility that firing the gun will also fire that uncapped chamber. Needless to say, that can ruin you fun.
zonie
My only complaint with the Wonder Wads is their price. I guess that's where the word "Wonder" comes from as in, "I Wonder why these little bits of felt cost so much?" :grin:
bama1157: One thing to pay attention to is the fit of the caps.
Many of these C&B guns have nipples that are for the #10 caps but those aren't always available.
The #11 caps will work but you have to pinch them down to make them a tight fit on the nipples.
When your shooting your gun it's a good idea to visually check the caps to make sure that the unfired ones didn't become loose or fall off of the nipples.
If a unfired cap does fall off of the nipple and it was on a loaded chamber there is a fair possibility that firing the gun will also fire that uncapped chamber. Needless to say, that can ruin you fun.
zonie
Me and a lot of 19th century guys shot cap and balls without wads for a lot of years...........Shooting without wads is the way Colt intended I believe..........Wads are not neccesary, but lube over the ball is...........Some pistols shoot more accurately without wads.............Wads are conveinient.........grease is messy. Try it both ways...............Bob
Well I went and shot it and man is it cool it's like a cannon I used 25 grains and no wads just crisco over the top of the balls I shot at a short stick og 2x12 @ 10 feet and it did not go through the board. Should it have? I would have thought so but what do I know being new and all.
Bump it up to 30-35 grs and it'll go through that sucker. :thumbsup: I get good accuracy out of two 58 Remmy's and a 60 Colt with those loads. Some will tell you different but try it and see for yourself. Won't hurt the gun either.
Stophel
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The wads do help lubricate things, but are a pain. I was shooting my Remington the other day with the wads (30 gr. of FFFg), and got tired of fooling with them, so about halfway through my session (I shot about 6 or 8 cylinders full), I decided to forget the wads. The thing actually shot MUCH better without the wads. It was shooting left and a bit wild with the wads, and dead center without them.
I refuse to put grease over the balls (anymore). I tried once years ago, and it just blew grease EVERYWHERE. Very messy. I don't know, I'd like to come up with something that worked to lubricate, but wasn't such a PITA....
As far as the dreaded chain fire...it seems to me that that would be something that was UTTERLY impossible. There's no way a spark could pass by a ball in another chamber...a ball that you had to press in with a lever and that had a ring of lead shaved off of it because it was so tight... If a spark can get past that, it can sure get past a wad.
Now, on the other end of the cylinder is where the (remote) possibility of problems could occur.
I refuse to put grease over the balls (anymore). I tried once years ago, and it just blew grease EVERYWHERE. Very messy. I don't know, I'd like to come up with something that worked to lubricate, but wasn't such a PITA....
As far as the dreaded chain fire...it seems to me that that would be something that was UTTERLY impossible. There's no way a spark could pass by a ball in another chamber...a ball that you had to press in with a lever and that had a ring of lead shaved off of it because it was so tight... If a spark can get past that, it can sure get past a wad.
Now, on the other end of the cylinder is where the (remote) possibility of problems could occur.
A chain fire caused by a flame from the firing chamber getting into a nipple of an adjacent chamber was recognized by Colt (and others).
Colt's extended patent of 1849 in its 3rd paragraph describing the features said:
"...Third, placing the nipples of the rotating breech in recesses made in the rotating breech, or between partitions substantially as described, as a protection to the caps or touch-holes from the effects of lateral fire, as described."
This would indicate to me that the possibility of a chain fire was recognized and a feature to prevent it was patented.
As with all inventions, some work well and some don't. In this case, although it works, it needs all the help it can get so a shooter is advised to make sure the caps fit tightly and that they are always in place until they are fired.
zonie
Colt's extended patent of 1849 in its 3rd paragraph describing the features said:
"...Third, placing the nipples of the rotating breech in recesses made in the rotating breech, or between partitions substantially as described, as a protection to the caps or touch-holes from the effects of lateral fire, as described."
This would indicate to me that the possibility of a chain fire was recognized and a feature to prevent it was patented.
As with all inventions, some work well and some don't. In this case, although it works, it needs all the help it can get so a shooter is advised to make sure the caps fit tightly and that they are always in place until they are fired.
zonie
Stophel said:
It's not impossible - it has happened. The scenario you describe, where the ball is press fit and the desired ring of lead has been shed, does make the possibility virtually, if not completely, nil. But it's not always the case that a ball is properly sized and press fit; in those cases, admittedly rare and due entirely to carelessness or ignorance, the presence of a wad does mitigate the chances of a chain fire.
When the ball is properly sized and press fit the wad is redundant. When it's not, the wad is good practice.
I've got an old 58 Remmy and it takes #9 caps. All I could ever find were #11. Took a lot of pinching to get them to stay on. Needless to say they weren't a good fit all around and frequently one or more would fall off during recoil. At the time I was also using excessively heavy loads. I had chain fires galore till I started lubing over the ball. Once I did I never had another chain-fire, never. BTW, they recently opened a Gander Mountain in Hattiesburg and they stock #10 caps. They're too big for the aforementioned gun.
