1851 Navy .36 - Load Data???

[JEEVES]

Just picked me up my first pistol (.36 cal.)& wondered why I found two really different loads.? :: One says 9-12 & other 22 gr. of triple F. 9 is a long way from 22!!!

I'd sure appreciate any tips on loading too. What do you use to over fill the powder before wad. What's best to use to seal everything? Crisco?

Thanks

 

[Aline]

I don

 

[Zonie]

I can't say I've seen loads for a .36 of only 9 grains but it would work if you wanted a little pop instead of a bang.

The loads for a .36 cap and ball gun depends on whether it is a brass frame or steel frame gun. The brass frame guns should be loaded lighter because the frame isn't as strong and they will "shoot loose" with heavy loads.
Shoot loose is the term for the frame lengthening in the thin area above the cylinder when speaking of a Remington style gun. For a Colt style it means the cylinder pin that holds the barrel to the frame tends to pull out of the rear frame with heavy loads.

Dixie Gun recommends the following loads for the .36 cal:
Brass Frame Colt style: 15 grains FFFg or Pyrodex P
Steel Frame Colt style: 18 grains FFFg or Pyrodex P
Steel Frame Remington: 18 grains FFFg or Pyrodex P.

If the gun is a steel frame IMO the maximum you can pour into the cylinder and get the ball to seat below the chamber mouth is the maximum. If your using blackpowder you can't really overload them by design because they will only hold so much powder.

If you use one of the above loads or less you will find the top of the powder is about 1/2 inch below the face of the cylinder. It is best to either place a Wonder Wad on top of the powder (expensive) or pour in a little corn meal or Cream of Wheat to raise the level to about 3/8 below the chamber face.

You should use .376 dia lead balls (or special bullets if you have them).

After you pour in the powder (and corn meal as needed) place the ball on the chamber mouth and using the rammer force the ball down aginst the powder. It should not have a air gap between the ball and powder.

Coat the mouth of the cylinder/ball with something like Crisco to seal it and to provide lubrication for the ball.

Unless your going to shoot the gun immediatly, it is best to load only 5 chambers and keep the hammer on the empty one.

Place the caps on the nipples. You may find that they fit rather loose. Some of these pistols like #10 primers but most use #11. If the cap is loose, gently squeeze the sides of it to close the mouth of it down a little. This will help hold it on the nipple.
Between shots it is a good idea to look at the caps on the unfired chambers as they sometimes come loose. If that happens, with the muzzle pointed down range put the gun on half cock and rotate the cylinder to permit you to reseat the cap.


Most of these guns shoot about 6 inches high at 25 yards so you might want to aim a little low.

Check the "SEARCH" under precussion for ".36 cal" and "loads" for lots of information on loads, and cleaning cap and ball guns.

Have Fun

 

What's best to use to seal everything? Crisco?

Crisco will work in cold weather, but will melt out and create a sticky mess in the summer. I use Cabela's Muzzleloader Lube to seal my loads, but I imagine that any of the waxy home-made lubes will work as well.

If loading conicals, do as Zonie said and top off your BP with corn meal to within 3/8" of the rim. If loading balls, try adding loose corn meal all the way to the top -- corn meal will compress quite a bit under loading pressure, and this gives you a nicely compacted load and reduces bullet jump. Balls are easier/faster to load (especially with cold fingers), but conicals will give you better accuracy. I don't use wads -- just BP, corn meal, bullet and lube (in that order /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif).

Lots of books say to fire caps on all the cylinders before loading to make sure they're clear, but IMHO this is a waste of caps. I just hold the cylinder up to a strong light source and make sure I can see light coming through the nipple holes (sight through the cap-cleaner indent at the right-hand side of the cylinder). I haven't had a misfire yet.

Two other things -- if the ball size is right for your revolver, a small ring of lead will get shaved off as you load the ball into the cylinder. Clean these away as you load, so they don't cause a sticking-point between the cylinder and the forcing cone. And check to make sure your nipples are on securely before reloading -- they can loosen as the gun is fired.

Tom

 

I've been shooting .36 navy revolvers for nearly 35 years and find it one of my most enjoyable hobbies. These are the most natural pointers that were ever produced and have a history that is unbelievable. This was the gun Colt used to correct the mistakes in enginering of the Walker and set the standard for revolver performance for the next 150 years.
The reason they usually shoot high at twenty five yards is because they are sighted for 75 yards with a full load(all the powder you can stuff in and seat the ball). These are guns designed for fighting plains Indians, shoot your rifle at 200 yards and use the pistol as he charges in, you'll have it out and fire the first shot when he hits about 75 yards.
Best load? An empty .38 special case of 3-F (25 grains?), press in the ball and coat the open cylender face with crisco. No corn meal except with reduced charges, and these guns were never intended to fire a reduced charge or target load. Full charge recoil is mild, so why bother? They were designed as a true fightin' gun to keep one alive during a violent time. I've worked on origionals that were still usable and in good working order after 150 years of use.
Note that most of the origional nipples were hollow tubes, for sure fire ignition, not the ones like we use today with the pin hole vent. When they droped the hammer they expected the gun to go boom in a major way, and save their life.
This gun is more powerful than a .380, about equil to the old .38 s&w, only slightly less punch than a .38 spl or 9mm and normally handles and shoots better than most "Modern" auto pistols or revolvers.
They actually work best with one carried on each side and a third stuck in the belt crossdraw. Three guns and 18 shots for less than the price of a new Glock or Baretta!

 

[JEEVES]

Thanks Everybody!

 

[musketman]

I'd sure appreciate any tips on loading too. What do you use to over fill the powder before wad. What's best to use to seal everything?

In this cut away picture of a cylinder you can see the order of the load, of course the cap is the last step after the chambers are loaded...

Sealing the chambers is a good idea, although crisco tends to run in the heat...

 

[Ohio Joe]

JEEVES,,, When you go to cleaning that revolver and if you take out the nipples, "as with all percussion revolvers", make sure you put the same nipple back in the chamber from which it came... Usually I do not remove the nipples but once a year for a complete thorough cleaning... The reason for this nipple placement is nipples will conform with the hammer and you want the same striking point at all times... Just thought I'd throw this in so you were aware of it. Looks like the rest of the folks have your loading question covered pretty well.

 

[tommygun]

I bought this .36 navy as a kit. Just finished it yesterday. I shot it today using 15 Gr. triple7 / with .376 round ball. It shot well at a burning barrel @30 yards. Pretty accurate , but not real powerful.
Next time I will boost up the powder to 20 grains. I had no problems with the #11 caps , as I pinched them for a tighter fit.
I really like this 1851 Pietta replica.

 

[Old Hawkeye]

I bought this .36 navy as a kit. Just finished it yesterday. I shot it today using 15 Gr. triple7 / with .376 round ball. It shot well at a burning barrel @30 yards. Pretty accurate , but not real powerful.
Next time I will boost up the powder to 20 grains. I had no problems with the #11 caps , as I pinched them for a tighter fit.
I really like this 1851 Pietta replica.

Using #11 caps on a nipple designed for a #10 on a C&B revolver is like begging for a chain fire, IMHO.

 

[Old Hawkeye]

Just picked me up my first pistol (.36 cal.)& wondered why I found two really different loads.? :: One says 9-12 & other 22 gr. of triple F. 9 is a long way from 22!!!

I'd sure appreciate any tips on loading too. What do you use to over fill the powder before wad. What's best to use to seal everything? Crisco?

Thanks

15 to 18 grains of FFFg powder makes a good plinking load. Dump the Crisco & corn meal thing & just use a lubed felt wad over the powder. They are only pennies & eliminate the PIA of the meal & Crisco MESS! Try it both ways & tell us what you think.

 

[mushka]

I have a Pietta 1851 .36 cal and use 20 grns 3F with a wad over the powder, Hornady or speer balls and cci 10 caps. Works perfectly. I don't need super power with this revolver so 20 grns is good for me.

 

[tommygun]

Using #11 caps on a nipple designed for a #10 on a C&B revolver is like begging for a chain fire, IMHO.

Really ? why is that? The cylinders are lubed up on the end after loading. The caps have nothing to do with chain firing. This is not my first BP revolver friend.

 

[springfield art]

I've been shooting .36 navy revolvers for nearly 35 years and find it one of my most enjoyable hobbies. These are the most natural pointers that were ever produced and have a history that is unbelievable. This was the gun Colt used to correct the mistakes in enginering of the Walker and set the standard for revolver performance for the next 150 years.
The reason they usually shoot high at twenty five yards is because they are sighted for 75 yards with a full load(all the powder you can stuff in and seat the ball). These are guns designed for fighting plains Indians, shoot your rifle at 200 yards and use the pistol as he charges in, you'll have it out and fire the first shot when he hits about 75 yards.
Best load? An empty .38 special case of 3-F (25 grains?), press in the ball and coat the open cylender face with crisco. No corn meal except with reduced charges, and these guns were never intended to fire a reduced charge or target load. Full charge recoil is mild, so why bother? They were designed as a true fightin' gun to keep one alive during a violent time. I've worked on origionals that were still usable and in good working order after 150 years of use.
Note that most of the origional nipples were hollow tubes, for sure fire ignition, not the ones like we use today with the pin hole vent. When they droped the hammer they expected the gun to go boom in a major way, and save their life.
This gun is more powerful than a .380, about equil to the old .38 s&w, only slightly less punch than a .38 spl or 9mm and normally handles and shoots better than most "Modern" auto pistols or revolvers.
They actually work best with one carried on each side and a third stuck in the belt crossdraw. Three guns and 18 shots for less than the price of a new Glock or Baretta!

Interesting comments! Very good post.

 

[MSW]

unless you're carrying this for personal defense, i think 15 grains is plenty. remember: the soda can will not complain that you're not using enough powder. (in the highly unlikely event that soda can does complain, set the whiny little twerp back on the post and shoot it again ... it'll get the hint - really!)

if you are carrying a C&B revolver (for whatever reason) for carry work, i would recommend a .44 caliber, rather than a .36.
seee, also, this link
Cap & Ball Revolvers for Self Defense - YouTube

i've found Crisco to be terrible in the summer, unless you enjoy melted grease all over everything ... there are a zillion recipes for this function - most involve paraffin, which is what i use ... try out a few, be scientific- take notes and only change one variable at a time. after a while you will hit on a solution which works best for you.

As regards the corn meal (or instant grits, or which ever filler you prefer) i recommend that you work up a load which puts in the powder (i like "real" black powder) then a hard paper wad, then the corn meal, then a felt wad, and ram the whole mess home. If you've done the measurements right, the ball will be slightly below the level of the cylinder, thus minimizing the distance it must go before it gets to the forcing cone.

there are some good vids on the problem of cap sucking ... if your particular gun doesn't do this, don't worry about it, but if it does, i would recommend this guy's solution ... it's worked well for me in the past.

here's a link:
THE PERCUSSION REVOLVER CAP JAMS - YouTube

of course, if it ain't broke DON'T TINKER WITH IT!

 

[wb78963]

I bought this .36 navy as a kit. Just finished it yesterday. I shot it today using 15 Gr. triple7 / with .376 round ball. It shot well at a burning barrel @30 yards. Pretty accurate , but not real powerful.
Next time I will boost up the powder to 20 grains. I had no problems with the #11 caps , as I pinched them for a tighter fit.
I really like this 1851 Pietta replica.
["pinching" caps is a sure fire way to get the dreaded CHAIN FIRE. ! I would suggest going to one of the vendors of BP supply's and get a set of nipples that fit the caps.
Check the web for a slo-mo of shooting a C&B revolver and see the amount of fire that the cap alone makes.
Hold center
Make Smoke
Bunk

 

[.36Rooster]

I use 9 grains in my .36 navy for squirrel hunting. Makes it about a 10 yd gun, which is interesting and challenging to hunt small game with..

Due to the tapered shape of the cylinder chambers, you will get better groups by loading cornmeal behind the wads, or just using bigger powder charge.

9 grains is very enjoyable to shoot though, and economical. Report is louder than a .22 mag, and you will need ear plugs for sure.

 

[tommygun]

I use 9 grains in my .36 navy for squirrel hunting. Makes it about a 10 yd gun, which is interesting and challenging to hunt small game with..

Due to the tapered shape of the cylinder chambers, you will get better groups by loading cornmeal behind the wads, or just using bigger powder charge.

9 grains is very enjoyable to shoot though, and economical. Report is louder than a .22 mag, and you will need ear plugs for sure.

Using 15 gr of triple 7 , the bullet would not pierce a 55 gallon drum at 30 yards. My .22 Henry rifle goes through both sides at the same distance.
just sayin.....

 

[abnben]

About twenty years ago I had access to an old civil war federal ordnance load table that referenced 17 grains fffg for the 1851. My son and I took out the pictured Navy (all matching 1861 mfg) and had a great time with that load.
Nothing better for the soul then the sound and feel of an old Colt going fully through the cylinder cycle followed by smoke in the air!

 

[Stantheman86]

The standard "service charge" was 12 gr of I assume 3f powder under a conical. However there were many "standards".

I use 20 gr of 2 or 3f in my steel frame Navy