1851 Navy .36 - Load Data???

[smoothshooter]

Just picked me up my first pistol (.36 cal.)& wondered why I found two really different loads.? :: One says 9-12 & other 22 gr. of triple F. 9 is a long way from 22!!!

I'd sure appreciate any tips on loading too. What do you use to over fill the powder before wad. What's best to use to seal everything? Crisco?

Thanks

First off, grease over the chambers doesn’t have any effect on chain-fires, contrary to what a lot of people will tell you. Loose caps, or WAAAYYY undersized balls CAN cause that. If you ever have a chain-fire, it is unnerving, but will not damage you or the gun. Identify the problem, fix it on the spot if you can, reload, suck it up and go on.
In the old days almost no one ever used greased wads and they for darned sure didn’t put grease over the chamber mouths. They loaded and shot everything dry.
Also keep in mind you are not having to choose your powder charges as carefully as if you were loading smokeless in metallic cartridges. A lot of new black powder shooters have a lot of trouble getting out of that mentality, especially if they have some metallic cartridge loading experience.
The bottom line is that unless you are engaged in some serious competition, powder charges really don’t matter much as long as they are fairly consistent in weight. Load by volume. As long as the powder charge leaves enough room to seat the ball, you are good.
I am a believer in using thin lubricated felt wads that you should be making yourself (because of the ridiculous prices that retail sellers get). Seat these on top of each powder charge under the ball. They are for keeping the fouling in the barrel down somewhat ONLY.
Don’t make shooting these things more complicated than it needs to be.
I have been carrying and shooting them for years while working in the woods cutting down trees for firewood, clearing brush, splitting wood, fixing fences, target practice, etc., off and on for years. Some of the places I was doing work had a lot of copperheads in warmer weather, and I always shoot them on sight.
I have gotten older, and don’t get the opportunities to shoot quite as much as I used to, but I’m still doing it occasionally.
The two revolvers I have always used the most have been tweaked a little by me, and are monotonously reliable.
BTW, I don’t buy the old stories about how Bill Cody emptied, cleaned, and reloaded his pistols every day. Think about it-if you have a pretty clean gun sith dry chambers that was loaded a few days earlier and not fired since, why introduce another variable to the equation by doing another cleaning that is not needed. “Fresh “ loads in the chambers are not needed if the guns have not been fired. Several of us can attest to the fact that percussion revolvers can remain loaded for months, and probably years, and still light up reliably when wanted.

 

[smoothshooter]

Really ? why is that? The cylinders are lubed up on the end after loading. The caps have nothing to do with chain firing. This is not my first BP revolver friend.

Disagree. Chain-fires come from the rear.
The CYLINDER is that big round thing that has all the holes in it.
The CHAMBERS are the holes where the powder and bullets go.

 

[smoothshooter]

Interesting comments! Very good post.

I am not convinced that Colts were meant to be zeroed at 75 yards. I think it just worked out that way because the manufacturer wanted to use a low-profile front sight that did not snag on anything as it was being pulled out of a holster or belt.
At very close range, where most handgun use takes place, zero does not matter anyway. But I can tell you that very, very few people have ever been hit by the person aiming at them with a handgun at 75 yards, then or now. When you add in the fact that people generally didn’t waste components or money on target practice like we do now, it makes it even less likely that any handgun in those days was designed for 50 to 75 yard use.

 

[smoothshooter]

JEEVES,,, When you go to cleaning that revolver and if you take out the nipples, "as with all percussion revolvers", make sure you put the same nipple back in the chamber from which it came... Usually I do not remove the nipples but once a year for a complete thorough cleaning... The reason for this nipple placement is nipples will conform with the hammer and you want the same striking point at all times... Just thought I'd throw this in so you were aware of it. Looks like the rest of the folks have your loading question covered pretty well.

Also put a little smear of Anti-Sieze on the threads of the nipples before you screw them back in.
You will thank me later.

 

[smoothshooter]

First off, grease over the chambers doesn’t have any effect on chain-fires, contrary to what a lot of people will tell you. Loose caps, or WAAAYYY undersized balls CAN cause that. If you ever have a chain-fire, it is unnerving, but will not damage you or the gun. Identify the problem, fix it on the spot if you can, reload, suck it up and go on.
In the old days almost no one ever used greased wads and they for darned sure didn’t put grease over the chamber mouths. They loaded and shot everything dry.
Also keep in mind you are not having to choose your powder charges as carefully as if you were loading smokeless in metallic cartridges. A lot of new black powder shooters have a lot of trouble getting out of that mentality, especially if they have some metallic cartridge loading experience.
The bottom line is that unless you are engaged in some serious competition, powder charges really don’t matter much as long as they are fairly consistent in weight or volume. Load by volume. As long as the powder charge leaves enough room to seat the ball, you are good.
I am a believer in using thin lubricated felt wads that you should be making yourself (because of the ridiculous prices that retail sellers get). Seat these on top of each powder charge under the ball. They are for keeping the fouling in the barrel down somewhat ONLY. It is not even important that the felt wads fit the chambers properly. Wads made for a .36 work just fine in a .44. You can even cut them into squares or triangle shapes and they work just fine. If you don’t believe me just try it yourself and report the results back to me. Remember, they are of no use as a gas seal but for lubrication only.

Don’t make shooting these things more complicated than it needs to be.
I have been carrying and shooting them for years while working in the woods cutting down trees for firewood, clearing brush, splitting wood, fixing fences, target practice, etc., off and on for years. Some of the places I was doing work had a lot of copperheads in warmer weather, and I always shoot them on sight.
I have gotten older, and don’t get the opportunities to shoot quite as much as I used to, but I’m still doing it occasionally.
The two revolvers I have always used the most have been tweaked a little by me, and are monotonously reliable.
BTW, I don’t buy the old stories about how Bill Cody emptied, cleaned, and reloaded his pistols every day. Think about it-if you have a pretty clean gun with dry chambers that was loaded a few days earlier and not fired since, why introduce another variable to the equation by doing another cleaning that is not needed. “Fresh “ loads in the chambers are not needed if the guns have not been fired. Several of us can attest to the fact that percussion revolvers can remain loaded for months, and probably years, and still light up reliably when wanted.

 

[D Yager]

I don't think it was Bill Cody but Bill Hickok that emptied his revolvers, chain fires seem to come from either end of the cylinder in my experience. There's as many opinions on this as there are guns out there. A good seal on both ends will prevent it from happening. In my part of the country Crisco is not a good idea. My revolvers are set up with a cap post, action shield, action stop, bolt guide and always a corrected arbor(open tops). For lube a mix of tallow and beeswax goes over the ball or bullet. My Pietta 1860 shoots better with a conical than with a ball. I also use 4f powder. It gives the pistol a bit more bark.

 

[smoothshooter]

I've been shooting .36 navy revolvers for nearly 35 years and find it one of my most enjoyable hobbies. These are the most natural pointers that were ever produced and have a history that is unbelievable. This was the gun Colt used to correct the mistakes in enginering of the Walker and set the standard for revolver performance for the next 150 years.
The reason they usually shoot high at twenty five yards is because they are sighted for 75 yards with a full load(all the powder you can stuff in and seat the ball). These are guns designed for fighting plains Indians, shoot your rifle at 200 yards and use the pistol as he charges in, you'll have it out and fire the first shot when he hits about 75 yards.
Best load? An empty .38 special case of 3-F (25 grains?), press in the ball and coat the open cylender face with crisco. No corn meal except with reduced charges, and these guns were never intended to fire a reduced charge or target load. Full charge recoil is mild, so why bother? They were designed as a true fightin' gun to keep one alive during a violent time. I've worked on origionals that were still usable and in good working order after 150 years of use.
Note that most of the origional nipples were hollow tubes, for sure fire ignition, not the ones like we use today with the pin hole vent. When they droped the hammer they expected the gun to go boom in a major way, and save their life.
This gun is more powerful than a .380, about equil to the old .38 s&w, only slightly less punch than a .38 spl or 9mm and normally handles and shoots better than most "Modern" auto pistols or revolvers.
They actually work best with one carried on each side and a third stuck in the belt crossdraw. Three guns and 18 shots for less than the price of a new Glock or Baretta!

I don’t believe these guns were intentionally sighted in for 75 yards, which is a rediculous distance to try to hit the torso of a man-sized target in an age when almost no one target practiced.
More likely they shot high at distance because the factories used tiny front sights so they would not snag on anything when pulled from a holster or belt. At the ranges where people were actually shot ( 0 to 15 yards ) the point of impact would be within a very few inches of where the sights lined up vertically.
They also shot high because of short arbors.
Most of us here practice shooting a lot. How many could get hits on the torso of a human silhouette at 75 yards under extreme stress with the most modern and accurate handguns availably today?
Most of us nowadays shoot more shots in a month than gun-toters fired in a lifetime.
In lots of military units target practice was strictly forbidden, and was a punishable offense because it was considered wasting and intentionally destroying government property.

 

[smoothshooter]

I meant to say Bill Hickok in my previous post. Not Bill Cody.

 

[smoothshooter]

I just pour directly from the flask. The risk of a spark is minimal to none in a revolver.

I agree.
I DO blow into the just fired chambers while rotating the cylinder once or twice to blow any remaining glowing embers out of them.
Not really necessary, but it is so quick to do, so why not. Never had any issues.

 

[smoothshooter]

I don't think it was Bill Cody but Bill Hickok that emptied his revolvers, chain fires seem to come from either end of the cylinder in my experience. There's as many opinions on this as there are guns out there. A good seal on both ends will prevent it from happening. In my part of the country Crisco is not a good idea. My revolvers are set up with a cap post, action shield, action stop, bolt guide and always a corrected arbor(open tops). For lube a mix of tallow and beeswax goes over the ball or bullet. My Pietta 1860 shoots better with a conical than with a ball. I also use 4f powder. It gives the pistol a bit more bark.

You are correct about Hickok. I knew that-don’t know why I mentioned Cody.

 

[drobs]

I am not convinced that Colts were meant to be zeroed at 75 yards. I think it just worked out that way because the manufacturer wanted to use a low-profile front sight that did not snag on anything as it was being pulled out of a holster or belt.
At very close range, where most handgun use takes place, zero does not matter anyway. But I can tell you that very, very few people have ever been hit by the person aiming at them with a handgun at 75 yards, then or now. When you add in the fact that people generally didn’t waste components or money on target practice like we do now, it makes it even less likely that any handgun in those days was designed for 50 to 75 yard use.

I'm sure most folks back then liked shooting for fun just as much as we do today. Not everyone was a poor dirt farmer. Even poor folks like shooting.

Hickok shooting off his guns every day was him shooting for fun / practice.

 

[smoothshooter]

I'm sure most folks back then liked shooting for fun just as much as we do today. Not everyone was a poor dirt farmer. Even poor folks like shooting.

Hickok shooting off his guns every day was him shooting for fun / practice.

Liking shooting and being able to afford to do so frequently are often two different things.
I am not convinced Hickok fired off and cleaned his guns every day. Does not seem practical.
It is known that Hickok, and a few of his close friends of his knew someone with a fearsome reputation with guns ( and the very real skill and willingness to use them ) was a deterrent to potential adversaries, and promoted that image to newspapermen and dime novel writers.
Someone who often spent most of his days and nights gambling, drinking, whoring around would typically have little time for even sleeping, let alone spending the better part of an hour or more shooting and cleaning guns.
I have wondered if during times when he was shooting a few shots every day or so did he shoot and clean both guns at the same time, or did he alternate by shooting each gun every other day? That way he always had at least one gun loaded and ready to go at all times.

 

[Johnny Tremain]

Blackie is a good you tuber, but he is wrong.
How come folks in the 1800s did not have cap jams, and today we do.

Easy they shot them the way Sam Colt made them to be shot. Today's safety drones condone the firing order from the 1886 Order of Arms that was taught back then.

There are all kinds of misinformation on the tube. Even Mike D has it wrong.

The part that says "jamming" is out of the Order of arms.
So every one does the many modifications that are all over the place.
I still use the Order of Arms method, and Ive not had a jam yet.
We use several private ranges, where you can explain you "unsafe" method, then every one is cool with it.

I do not know what the loads are for the 36 cals, but I do know that 777 is stronger than holy black or Pyrodex.
As far as not using a 36 cal for self defense, So is the 38 Special & .357 mag are both 36 cal. Even the weenie 9mm (.355) is in there.
With 777 my 44 1860 is right up there with 38 special target loads. So I kinda figure the 36 being lighter would be up there also.