I have an 1851 navy replica revolver that shoots about 12 inches high at 25 yards. I would like to put a new front sight on the pistol. I have seen a dovetail cutter in one of the blackpowder catalogs that I have. Would there be any problem with me doing this, for example is the barrel thick enough for me to cut a dovetail into it. Would there be anything else that I should be concerned about. The pistol was purchased at Cabela's and is a brass framed revolver. Thanks for you help.
1851 Navy revolver
- Thread starter IrishBob
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You should be able to cut a dovetail as deep as the one for the catch that fastens the end of the loading lever.
Other than that, the only concern is choosing the proper height and finding one that you like. Before I went to the trouble of a dovetail I would check out unscrewing the existing sight (use a pin vise) and either adding a 1858 Remington style or finding a metric bolt that would fit the threads and thinning the last 1/8" on either side with a Dremel grinder tip after getting the height right. MUCH easier, and you could always put it back to original condition.
Other than that, the only concern is choosing the proper height and finding one that you like. Before I went to the trouble of a dovetail I would check out unscrewing the existing sight (use a pin vise) and either adding a 1858 Remington style or finding a metric bolt that would fit the threads and thinning the last 1/8" on either side with a Dremel grinder tip after getting the height right. MUCH easier, and you could always put it back to original condition.
I have a 1851 Navy made by Pietta. It shot high at 15 yards. I just cut the notch on the hammer sight a little deeper and the point of impact came down nicely. Worked for me, it may be easier for you to do that instead of cutting the dovetail. :imo:
Doc Will
Keep Yer Powder Dry :thumbsup:
Doc Will
Keep Yer Powder Dry :thumbsup:
I read that one of Wild Bill's 51 navys at the Cody Museum has a dove tail front sight on it. Also, as has already been said, you can cut down the hammer notch to lower the point of aim. The story goes, that the Colts were supposed to be point of aim at 100yards.
Good luck, Jeff
Good luck, Jeff
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I don't know if it's worth to dovetail a brass-frame revolver. I'd rather go with stumpkillers suggestion.
I read somewhere that the Colt 1851 was sighted in for 75 yards (the distance, Wild Bill shoot Tutt).
As the hammer is hardened, filing down the groove is not a good idea :imo:
I wonder if someday a manufacturer provides higher front-sights.
I read somewhere that the Colt 1851 was sighted in for 75 yards (the distance, Wild Bill shoot Tutt).
As the hammer is hardened, filing down the groove is not a good idea :imo:
I wonder if someday a manufacturer provides higher front-sights.
I've heard the high sighting picture explained as that it was intended you hold on your opponents belt buckle for a center-body shot. :hmm:
Heck, it was a step in the right direction from the pepperboxes and other pistols of the immediately prior times that didn't even have sights a'tall.
Heck, it was a step in the right direction from the pepperboxes and other pistols of the immediately prior times that didn't even have sights a'tall.
There are some folks shooting 51's in CAS that have done the dovetail and new front sight, also cut the notch in the hammer deeper. Another method is to remove the exhisting front sight and press a new one in. most of them are just a press fit and should come out with a little work. you can make a new post from a piece of the same diameter brazing rod. Good luck
The ole Belt Buckle thing sounds as good as any.
Just for giggles, I ran some numbers thru my roundball ballistics program for a .36 cal pistol.
Sighted in to hit at 120 yards, with a muzzle velocity of 825 Ft/sec it will hit 12 inches high at 30 and 100 yards.
Same load sighted in at 100 yards shoots 7.5 high at 25 yards and reaches a high point of 11.2 at 50 yards.
Just for giggles, I ran some numbers thru my roundball ballistics program for a .36 cal pistol.
Sighted in to hit at 120 yards, with a muzzle velocity of 825 Ft/sec it will hit 12 inches high at 30 and 100 yards.
Same load sighted in at 100 yards shoots 7.5 high at 25 yards and reaches a high point of 11.2 at 50 yards.
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Zonie:
This is why this "antique" BP stuff is so interesting and addictive! It really increases the investigative mind!
This is why this "antique" BP stuff is so interesting and addictive! It really increases the investigative mind!
I am guilty of the belt buckle story but it wasn't my idea. I read about it in Elmer Keith's book, "Six Guns". I have seen old 1851 Navies with a filed dovetail front sight so such a modification is historically correct. You can also really improve matters if you change the V notch in the hammer to a square notch.
The idea of aiming at the belt buckle and the long range sighting are related. I have read that the old sixguns were sighted for long range, 75 yds. is what sticks in my mind. At more social distances if you tried to use the sights, as opposed to point shoothing you would aim low. I guess, someone with a revolver please try to confirm this, that aiming at the belt buckle is about right to take a gun like that and center your shots in the chest.
robinghewitt
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I heard a story that the 1851 grip was designed so that the gun would recoil to a pointing up position. You would then place your thumb on the hammer, flip the gun back to aim and cock it all in one smooth motion.
Maybe I'm not putting enough powder in it ::
Maybe I'm not putting enough powder in it ::
Guest
The Colt was the first handgun built with westward expansion in mind. It was a gun for the plainsman.
You had the Walker in 1848; big, heavy, brutal to shoot, impossible to carry in the belt (4 lbs?).
1849 came the pocket Colt in .31. Good for card sharks and home owners, but not much use against enemies in the open.
2nd model dragoon, still too big for normal belt carry. Folks wern't as big as us at that moment. Walkers and dragoons were issued with saddle houlsters.
Then comes the '51. Sleek, bueatiful, smooth in the hand, feel that metal snick into place when you thumb the hammer! And it fits in your belt, right in front where you can get to it with either hand. Now you have your rifle for long range, and six quick shots for close in work.
Only now you are fighting the plains Indians. Mounted warriors, they draw your fire then come in quick, with lances, and finish you off.
So you see the enemy, head for a rise and dismount. The Comachee stay about 300 yards out and taunt you to draw your fire. The rifles pop and they come at you. No time to reload the rifles you don't even try.
By the time you get the Colt out of your belt they are at 200 yds. You thumb back the hammer and take aim and they are at 100. You aim center of mass and pull the trigger, the cap fires at 75 for the first shot. You get off one shot per second for 4 more seconds and they are on you or they are dead. Shot # 6 is saved to put through your own brain.
This is not speculation, but standard documented accounting of plains fighting from several sources. The system was perfected by the Texas Rangers, in the 1840s, using the Patterson, Texas model, also a .36 cal. (look up the Battle of the Perdinales, several famous names there, one was Walker who helped Colt redesign his product and made his name imortal, Colt named the model after him) Using Colt revolvers the mounted plainsman was considered good for 10 to 1 odds against the Indians. It worked out as long as they could get to some high ground and make a "stand".
Custer------ 250
Grazy Horse-2500
That's why Custer left a trail of dead troopers up the hill at LBH, and why the Indians knew they had to stop him before he reached the top of the rise.
A Texas scholar named Webb (Prof at U Texas, several times pres of the American History Society and Association of Southern History) wrote a book called The West, many years ago. It is still the classic trext on plains history. He devoted an entire chapter to the Colt revolver if my memory serves me (I read it 20 years ago).
:m2c:
You had the Walker in 1848; big, heavy, brutal to shoot, impossible to carry in the belt (4 lbs?).
1849 came the pocket Colt in .31. Good for card sharks and home owners, but not much use against enemies in the open.
2nd model dragoon, still too big for normal belt carry. Folks wern't as big as us at that moment. Walkers and dragoons were issued with saddle houlsters.
Then comes the '51. Sleek, bueatiful, smooth in the hand, feel that metal snick into place when you thumb the hammer! And it fits in your belt, right in front where you can get to it with either hand. Now you have your rifle for long range, and six quick shots for close in work.
Only now you are fighting the plains Indians. Mounted warriors, they draw your fire then come in quick, with lances, and finish you off.
So you see the enemy, head for a rise and dismount. The Comachee stay about 300 yards out and taunt you to draw your fire. The rifles pop and they come at you. No time to reload the rifles you don't even try.
By the time you get the Colt out of your belt they are at 200 yds. You thumb back the hammer and take aim and they are at 100. You aim center of mass and pull the trigger, the cap fires at 75 for the first shot. You get off one shot per second for 4 more seconds and they are on you or they are dead. Shot # 6 is saved to put through your own brain.
This is not speculation, but standard documented accounting of plains fighting from several sources. The system was perfected by the Texas Rangers, in the 1840s, using the Patterson, Texas model, also a .36 cal. (look up the Battle of the Perdinales, several famous names there, one was Walker who helped Colt redesign his product and made his name imortal, Colt named the model after him) Using Colt revolvers the mounted plainsman was considered good for 10 to 1 odds against the Indians. It worked out as long as they could get to some high ground and make a "stand".
Custer------ 250
Grazy Horse-2500
That's why Custer left a trail of dead troopers up the hill at LBH, and why the Indians knew they had to stop him before he reached the top of the rise.
A Texas scholar named Webb (Prof at U Texas, several times pres of the American History Society and Association of Southern History) wrote a book called The West, many years ago. It is still the classic trext on plains history. He devoted an entire chapter to the Colt revolver if my memory serves me (I read it 20 years ago).
:m2c:
William Cody, aka Buffalo Bill,wrote an autobiography on his life up to his duel with Yellow Hand. Several times he and his pards got trapped out on the plains by hostile Indians. They would head for a creek bottom as it afforded natural cover. The rifles would keep the Indians at bay but every one( usually two or three) had a pair of Colt's pistols and the fire power they represented often prevented an all out charge. This book is still around and about $10.00. I found mine in a close out table for $3.00. It gives a pretty good insight to life on the plains.
