1853 enfield Armi Sport vs. Euroarms?

[NCrebel2533]

i know this has to be somewhere on this forum but i figured i would ask it once more. i am looking at buy an 1853 Enfield to take hunting or just target shooting. i am not worried about it being historically accurate. i am more concerned about it being an accurate rifle. i am not made of money so the Armi Sport or Euroarms Enfield is in my price range and i want to know yalls opinion.

 

[Zonie]

Either companies rifled muskets are pretty good but the thing you must ask yourself is whether you want to shoot Minie' style bullets or round balls.

These Rifled Muskets (all of them) were originally made to shoot the Minie' balls so they have just a few (usually 3) grooves and the grooves are usually rather shallow.

While this worked fine for killing people, where pinpoint accuracy wasn't needed, it does make getting really fine accuracy out of them a challenge.

The problem usually mentioned with these Rifled Muskets is they almost always have a heavy trigger pull.
The rear sight is usually a fairly wide V notch and the front sight is a narrow blade.
Combining these two features for one hole accuracy is not an easy job.

Although these guns will shoot a .570 roundball patched with a good cotton patch the combination must be fairly "tight".

If your shooting a Minie' Ball, the bullets hollow skirt pretty much limits the powder load to 70 grains (60 grains was the usual load of powder).
Adding more powder will often "blow the skirt" as it leaves the muzzle and this will create "flyers" that are totally unpredictable.

Some folks really dislike the Enfields stock. The comb is rather high and it can clobber you cheek.
Speaking of clobbering your cheek, when shooting a 400+ grain Minie' the recoil is very much like a 20 guage shotgun. The roundballs kick much less.

If you willing to live with these things I'm sure you will be happy with an Enfield from either of these companies.

 

[jeep44]

I have a Euroarms. The Armisport seems to be more historically correct for a Civil War reenactor such as myself-the most glaring problem with the Euroarms is that it has later-pattern barrel bands on it (the sling swivels are wrong,too). I ended up changing those barrel bands for a set of Armisport bands. The lock plate markings on the Euroarms are not correct,either. Again,I changed out the lockplate for a more correct one. All this might not concern you as a shooter, but an Armisport might be easier to sell down the road if an Enfield is not what you are looking for.

 

[NCrebel2533]

how does your Euroarm shoot?

 

[hanshi]

I have a Euroarms .54 M1841 that is pc and target accurate. Shoots as well as any rifle I've ever owned.

 

[hanshi]

The one at the top is my 1841 Mississippi rifle.

 

[NCrebel2533]

what is the better rate of twist for the minie ball because i see that euroarm and armi sport's enfield differ in the rate of twist with the armi sport having 1:48 and the euroarm has a 1:78.

 

[hanshi]

Mine has a 1-66" twist. It is super accurate with prb and quite accurate with T/C maxi ball & especially maxi hunter. Though I only hunt with prb, I'd not hesitate to use the maxi if I needed extra weight. Mine is a .54 (as were the originals) but they are also readily (more so) available in .58.

 

[hanshi]

I might add that you don't need a fast twist for minie or maxi, for that matter. The WBTS rifled muskets such as the springfield, etc., were around 1-66" plus or slightly minus.

 

[Zonie]

This is true!

Although a 1:66 (or slower) twist sounds very slow for use with a bullet the key thing is the length of the bullet compared with its diameter.

With the Minie' Balls, their hollow base adds little weight to their total weight of the bullet so when calculating the "length" for use in the twist formulas it is actually quite short.

I hope this makes sense. :hmm:

Suffice it to say the Minie' Ball will work with the very slow twists found in these Rifled Muskets.

Actually, a bigger issue when shooting Minie's is the diametrical fit with the bore.
The outside diameter of the Minie' should be about .002-.003 smaller than the bore to get good accuracy.

 

[NCrebel2533]

ok i did not know that. would a faster twist actually decrease accuracy? and does the 1858 2 band enfield have better accuracy that the 1853 3 band enfield?

 

[ResearchPress]

The original P/53 Enfield had a 1 in 78 twist rifling and apart from the earlier production also had progressive depth rifling.

Modern manufactures have varied this so that some do not confirm to Pattern and have faster twist rifling. This may not matter if you're not bothered about being 'historically correct' or shooting Minie bullets.

The load for a P/53 was 2.5 drams (about 68 grains), not 60 grains as stated above. I shoot 75 grains of a medium grade shooting powder sold here in the UK in my original short rifle. I have a feeling that more concern of blown skirts with Minie's is given than necessary at times. I've used larger charges at long range (we shoot Enfields out to 800 yards here in the UK) and not experienced problems.

The P/58 Naval rifle (and some short rifles) had 1 in 48 rifling. These rifles have heavier barrels than the P/53. More importantly for some the rearsight is placed further from the shooters eye which can give a clearer sight picture.

David

 

[NCrebel2533]

ok. i have noticed that modern reproduction enfields can have a ROT of 1:48", would this make the minie ball less accurate or more?

 

[ResearchPress]

The original P/58 Naval rifle and the later army short rifles had a ROT of 1 in 48. These two band rifles have a good reputation for accuracy. The added combination of heavy barrel & better rear sight placement probably helping with accuracy.

Whether there's any improvement in accuracy when applied to the P/53 with its longer and lighter barrel I don't know - I have no experience of shooting them.

David

 

[NCrebel2533]

so if you say that the 2 band model is better for accuracy