1860 colt army fowling bad then locking after 6 rounds

[huntman58]

Hi I have an 1860 colt army it is an import I believe by navy arms (based on the proof marks I know it is from Italy). The thing shoots well but after 6 rounds the thing is so fowled the cylinder will not rotate with out help, is there any thing that can be done to make it run say for 12 or more before this happens? The gun is very tight. I hold the gun up when cocking so the spent cap falls out to the ground so I know that’s not doing it. After 6 rounds you have to help it rotate and after 18 forget it is not going to move tell taken apart and fully cleaned. I know it will not run like today’s guns but I would think 12 to 18 (3 cylinders full would not be asking that much of it I enjoy it but if this can not be fixed then off it go’s for a single shot percussion pistol. Say a Hawkins or Kentucky. :wink:

 

[Bob Riegl]

:hmm: Yes that can be a mighty pain in the butt---on only one load---since you say the spent caps are not the cause---then we must begin to suspect the powder. If it's Elephant than that solves that problem it's extremely dirty manure :cursing: ---hopefully it's not and it's a good fffg powder. Are you using any type of "filler"? i.e.cornmeal, farina or crisco (yucky)--because that IMHO is the first cause of crud forming and bogging things down. I would recommend lubed felt over wads, they usually keep the crud to a minimum and do some cleaning. Last but not least what is your powder charge? Follow the manufacturer's suggestion---too much powder leaves unburned powder and increases crud formation. These are only suggestions and may not be a solution to your problem---but a start hopefully in the right direction. YMHS :hatsoff:

 

[rebel727]

Maybe you're driving the wedge in too far. The wedge on my 60 Colt is flush on the side opposite the screw.

 

[DOUBLEDEUCE 1]

Check the gap between the end of the cylinder and the forcing cone at the base of the barrel. tolerances might be a bit snug, and fouling might impede the rotation of the cylinder. Also check the barrel wedge to see if it in too far. The small screw above the wedge is to adjust the depth you can drive the wedge.
Check the face of the cylinder for rough machine marks that might catch fouling. Check the base of the forcing cone to see if it is straight and has no rough machine marks. If you find some roughness, you might try to stone, not file the marks down slightly.
I have a Colt 1851 Navy and a Navy Arms 1851 Navy. I have never used any filler and have not experienced any problems in shooting either revolver. I run a little gear lube over the mouth of the cylinder to seal off the chambers after they are loaded and that is about it. Once in a while, a cap will fall down between the recoil shield and the rear of the cylinder. That has been my only problem, still no big deal.

 

[DOUBLEDEUCE 1]

I should add that I have an 1860 Army, 1861 Colt Navy and Colt Dragoon, plus a tired old Italian made Walker. The same applies across the board for the sticking cylinder problems you might encounter.

 

[mazo kid]

Are you lubing the cylinder axle pin good? That, and the wedge too far in are major causes of sticky action.

 

[huntman58]

Okay some great ides that I did not think of :redface: so thanks. One that sounds like what it may be is the wedge pin in to deep as the screw is in all the way and the pin is tight to the screw. I use the good powder the red and white can stuff. I use bore butter on the cylinder pin and also to cap off the cylinder when loaded. I also use 29 grains powder no filler and no over powder wad. The forcing cone is nice and smooth as I had polished it some time ago with a stone I used for trigger work in the past.
The cylinder pins and inside cylinder bore is also nice and smooth. When the gun has not been shot every thing moves slick and free. Timing is right on. (What a chore and work of love doing that) so I am backing out the screw for the wedge pin and will try that next time I take it out. This should be in a day or two at most this week end and I will report how it worked then

 

[rebel727]

The wedge screw should be screwed in tight. All it's for is to keep the wedge from falling out when you remove the barrel.

 

[Don]

I had a similar problem with a Pietta revolver. It turned out to be that the hand was too close to the cylinder pin in fact it was touching. The fouling from just two shots would bind it up so tight I had to take the gun apart and clean it. I fixed it by taking a file and sand paper to the hand and cylider pin then polished with steel wool. This gave it enough clearance to operate fine.

Don

 

[Poor Private]

Also when at the firing range if you have a buddy there firing with triple 7 try a few cylinders and see what happens. I use "gasp" triple seven and fouling is almost non existant on the cylinder spindle. I can fire 6-8 cylinder loads before I start to get fouling.

 

[graybeard]

Sounds like the wedge is too tight. On my 1860 Colt replica the right end of the wedge is flush with the barrel assembly. I just ran three cylinders through mine today with no binding. Use 25 grains Pyrodex P with an over-powder wad and then bore butter over the mouth of the chamber. Redundancy, maybe, but I don't mind the slow reloading. The colonel can start the charge without me. :wink: graybeard

 

[RADeO]

You might try using some high-temperature grease on the cylinder pin. I use wheel-bearing grease on the pin of my 1860 Army repro. It is very thick and stays right where it is needed.

Good luck.

 

[huntman58]

You might try using some high-temperature grease on the cylinder pin. I use wheel-bearing grease on the pin of my 1860 Army repro. It is very thick and stays right where it is needed.

Good luck.

I read some were that using any petroleum products when mixed with fowling can make a very hard gunk that is defect to get off. I also believe if this was true I do not think you would be still doing that so I may just try it also. the center pin wedge seams to be the thing I back it off some and it loosened the gap a tinny bit between the forcing cone and cylinder man can not wait to try it out as I like the thing and so dose the wife

 

[RADeO]

I too have read about petroleum-based products and BP fouling. I've never had any problem with the wheel-bearing grease however. It is VERY thick, and the hot powder gasses don't seem to cook it to the metal surfaces as may happen inside the barrel. All I have had to do is wipe it off with a rag when I clean the revolver. I DO NOT use petroleum-based lubes in the bore, though.

Believe me, I am MUCH too lazy to fight unnecessary gunk in my BP firearms. Had I experienced any, I'd have long since discontinued using the WB grease.

 

[kgrohs]

the lube you'll might want to concider is tetra gun, use it on all ock parts and all bearing surfaces, in all firearms, another thing is, your using full, loads in that revolver an it will foul the manure out of it if your doing target work , start with 10% less than half of what your using and fill remander up with a filler and then ball or bullet, seat the round cap it off and see where it prints roughly 10-15 grians is were your accuracy will be at but start with 3fg,black, i found in all 5 revolvers i own from .31 to .45 rugar old army that that rule seams to work, still get fouling but not that bad, wads are great but get darn right expensive, have used other powders, and found pinnicle that really works well, but really prefer black. kjg

 

[Bert]

I have shot Colt, Rem, and Roger and Spencer. I use the same type of lube on the cyl. pin and I can shoot the Roger and Spencer all day long with no problems. The Colt and Rem will get tight. There is a small flange on the R&S cyl. Check one out sometime. I believe the crud is deflected away from the cyl. pin by this flange.

 

[huntman58]

I have read this theory before also and it makes some since even to me LOL. I only use real black powder never did like the fake stuff. I also had the same trouble with an 1858 rem and sold it because of it. Since that time I got into pistol smithing 1911's (sorry modern stuff) and have learned a great deal from being a kid when I got into ML. I am also starting to go only ML. and simply enjoy it so much more. The wheel bearing grease I would think would also act like a block for the fowling. I will say when not fowled it is slick as all get out. I have never been a fan of fillers and get good groups with out it all thou I do have to sight low and right to get them but if I do that paper or can is dead and can not attack me any more lol. I do love the looks of the single shots and may still think about trading it off but I know I will hate my self later if I do as I want more guns not the same as I believe in helping the economy in this times like the lead ball casters and powder makers LOL

 

[bob308]

if the wedge is not too tight. then grease the base pin up with crisco. and top the cyl. with it too. now i have found that with the low melt point when you fire the pistol it lubes the parts that need lubed and keeps it soft. yes it is mess. but it does work.
i have fired a 51 and a .36 rem all day with that set up and no light loads either. during the day i tried one cyl. with no lube and they started to lock up. did not clean just went back to the crisco the cyl. full and they both started to work free again.

 

[Bob Riegl]

:v The wedge pin is something I had forgotten---I have a Walker which will not function at all if the wedge pin is in too far. As I said, other ideas would come out in this thread---other than what has been said here it would be a mystery if you couldn't clear it up. :v

 

[huntman58]

Well I thought picking minds here was better then selling it as I could not see two deferent guns years apart having the same problem and not being able to be fixed. This is one thing about the internet that is so good ya get to pick minds of like people for free LOL. Again thanks all we will be trying some of this come this weekend and the wedge screw is number one on the list.