1861 Springfield not igniting powder

[Winters]

Hey all,

I recently picked up a Pedersoli 1861 Springfield. Used but in great condition. While my ammunition for it has not come in yet, I ordered some Schuetzen Musket Caps and decided I would try them out. After using 3 caps to clear out any gunk that may have been in the nipple, I loaded up the rifle with 60g of Goex FFG, slapped a cap on there, and pulled the trigger. Unfortunately, it did not ignite the powder. I tried two more times before doing a full disassemble and cleaning of the gun. After that, I tried the same thing but to no avail.

What am I doing wrong here?

 

[Erwan]

Surprising...
When the barrel is empty (if you are absolutely sure) and you blow out after firing the primers, can you see the smoke coming back through the nipple channel?
Have you tried with small caps or musket caps?

 

[Winters]

Surprising...
When the barrel is empty (if you are absolutely sure) and you blow out after firing the primers, can you see the smoke coming back through the nipple channel?
Have you tried with small caps or musket caps?

Yes, I can see smoke in and around the nipple channel when the cap goes off. The caps I am using are the Schuetzen Musket Caps found here: SCHUETZEN MUSKET CAPS 4-WING 1000/bx - Graf & Sons

 

[Rudall]

Yes, I can see smoke in and around the nipple channel when the cap goes off.

That isn’t quite what Erwan asked. To put it another way, when you cleaned the barrel did you get a good flow of water through the nipple? And make sure that it and the channel were dry afterwards? Did you remove the nipple to dry it?

 

[Winters]

That isn’t quite what Erwan asked. To put it another way, when you cleaned the barrel did you get a good flow of water through the nipple? And make sure that it and the channel were dry afterwards? Did you remove the nipple to dry it?

Oh gotcha - yes, water came through the nipple when I put water down the barrel. Yes, the nipple was dry before and after I cleaned it.

 

[RicM]

Remove the nipple clean out the barrel with some hot soapy water flushed down the muzzle. The water should piss out the nipple hole fast and full. If not get a small pick or pipe cleaner to clear out any blockage. Thoroughly clean and dry out the barrel. While doing this let the nipple soak in a small cup with Hopps 9or an equivalent. Then use a nipple pick and toothbrush and clean it and make sure nothing is blocking it. If you have compressed air shoot it down the nipple hole should hear it flowing and do the same with the nipple. Then very lightly greased the thread of the nipple re-install. (Snug it don’t over tighten it)

Then shoot a cap or two, then load it up with powder and try it. The darn think should work!!! No reason it shouldn't.

 

[RicM]

Another way if you can get a bore scope ( got mine on amazon $55, an excellent tool to have) I can actually examine the entire bore and bottom for any obstruction, grime etc and can see cap channel opening into the barrel.

 

[JamesA]

Hey all,

I recently picked up a Pedersoli 1861 Springfield. Used but in great condition. While my ammunition for it has not come in yet, I ordered some Schuetzen Musket Caps and decided I would try them out. After using 3 caps to clear out any gunk that may have been in the nipple, I loaded up the rifle with 60g of Goex FFG, slapped a cap on there, and pulled the trigger. Unfortunately, it did not ignite the powder. I tried two more times before doing a full disassemble and cleaning of the gun. After that, I tried the same thing but to no avail.

What am I doing wrong here?

Well, my Pedersoli Hawken has a very similar problem. Musket percussion caps are for "displays", reenactments, parades, etc. or so they tell me. The original nipple on my Hawken had an .035 dia. hole. The musket nipple was quite a bit smaller, .027, so I opened it up to what the original dia in the Hawken nipple is. I cannot guarantee this will make a difference, I haven't been out to the range to try it yet. Then, another trick, time consuming and a lot of monkey motion (pain in the a$$) and I've been doing it for a while, take the screw out of the drum and trickle a little BP in there, kind of like a flintlock. Don't go crazy, just enough to ignite the powder in the chamber. If you have a nipple pick, make sure you have an open flash channel to the chamber. Close her all up and bingo, it should fire. I am sure I will be critisized for it but it works while we cannot get #11 caps and REAL black powder. BTW, I use Pyrodex P (FFFg). I would prefer to do it the right way but I need that BOOM and the smoke, anemic as it is with pyrodex. 70 gr. P (FFFg), patched round ball .495, patch thickness .010. It works.

5 shot group, 25 yards, bench rest with the above mentioned load.

 

[RicM]

Great point James, the caps may be re-enactments caps and not for loaded rounds.

 

[dave951]

Hey all,

I recently picked up a Pedersoli 1861 Springfield. Used but in great condition. While my ammunition for it has not come in yet, I ordered some Schuetzen Musket Caps and decided I would try them out. After using 3 caps to clear out any gunk that may have been in the nipple, I loaded up the rifle with 60g of Goex FFG, slapped a cap on there, and pulled the trigger. Unfortunately, it did not ignite the powder. I tried two more times before doing a full disassemble and cleaning of the gun. After that, I tried the same thing but to no avail.

What am I doing wrong here?

We shoot these critters in competition.

First off, when snapping caps, did you put the muzzle near the ground to see if the cap moved the grass or dust? Second, the ONLY reason it won't go off is an obstruction either of the flash channel or (heaven forbid!) IT'S LOADED ALREADY. Rule that out by putting the ramrod in the barrel till it stops. Mark where the muzzle is on the ramrod. Then withdraw the rod, place the mark at the muzzle and observe where the end of the ramrod is. If it's unloaded, it should be at or very near the flash channel.

 

[dave951]

Well, my Pedersoli Hawken has a very similar problem. Musket percussion caps are for "displays", reenactments, parades, etc. or so they tell me. The original nipple on my Hawken had an .035 dia. hole. The musket nipple was quite a bit smaller, .027, so I opened it up to what the original dia in the Hawken nipple is. I cannot guarantee this will make a difference, I haven't been out to the range to try it yet. Then, another trick, time consuming and a lot of monkey motion (pain in the a$$) and I've been doing it for a while, take the screw out of the drum and trickle a little BP in there, kind of like a flintlock. Don't go crazy, just enough to ignite the powder in the chamber. If you have a nipple pick, make sure you have an open flash channel to the chamber. Close her all up and bingo, it should fire. I am sure I will be critisized for it but it works while we cannot get #11 caps and REAL black powder. BTW, I use Pyrodex P (FFFg). I would prefer to do it the right way but I need that BOOM and the smoke, anemic as it is with pyrodex. 70 gr. P (FFFg), patched round ball .495, patch thickness .010. It works.


View attachment 85005

5 shot group, 25 yards, bench rest with the above mentioned load.

Uhmm, NO musket caps are NOT for reenactments only, unless you're talking the CCI garbage. Also, if you're after accuracy, DO NOT enlarge the hole in the nipple. Do I know what I'm talking about? Well-

5 shots from my Parker Hale, 58cal, RWS MUSKET CAPS, at 50 yd

1862 Colt Contract 58cal RWS MUSKET CAPS, 50yd

Aaaand my favorite- Parker Hale musketoon carbine, 58cal RWS MUSKET CAPS at 100yd

 

[dave951]

Back to the OP, what you have sounds like the flash channel is obstructed.
Before going any further PLEASE CONFIRM IT'S NOT LOADED

 

[Sam squanch]

You may have a broken drill or something in there from the factory.

 

[JamesA]

Uhmm, NO musket caps are NOT for reenactments only, unless you're talking the CCI garbage. Also, if you're after accuracy, DO NOT enlarge the hole in the nipple. Do I know what I'm talking about? Well-

5 shots from my Parker Hale, 58cal, RWS MUSKET CAPS, at 50 yd
View attachment 85020


1862 Colt Contract 58cal RWS MUSKET CAPS, 50yd
View attachment 85021

Aaaand my favorite- Parker Hale musketoon carbine, 58cal RWS MUSKET CAPS at 100yd
View attachment 85022

CCI garbage is ALL that is available. It's either use them or figure out how to make a BIC lighter work. Where I'm at, we can't get anything so we have to make do with what we have access to. The hole in the nipple is already done. It's ironic, there are as many opinions as grains of sand in the Sahara desert. Some of the folks around here that have been shooting black powder for decades said it was a reasonable assumption. Accuracy? I just want the S.O.B. to fire!

Edit: I don't shoot competition, I gave it up back in 1982. I was shooting IMSA steel silhouette (unmentionable firearms although it was a Thompson Center) and it got to the point it was no fun anymore. I was never that good at it anyway. I enjoy watching people that are willing to devote that much time to something, they are true artists. Ever seen someone hit a full sized steel ram at 200 meters, off hand, open sight pistol? And hit it 10 for 10? It's a sight to behold. I never got close to being that good. It looks like you are one hell of a shot, I really admire that. Anyway, enjoy your shooting, I sure as hell enjoy mine.

 

[Stantheman86]

He's using Schuetzen caps which are very hot, should be no problems.

I'm concerned that the last owner may have left the flash channel full of some crap from using Pyrodex or some junk Sub powder. That fouling dries to a rock hard consistency.

I would just put the hammer down on the nipple with a piece of leather or something similar and fill the breech area with solvent, and let it sit for a few days.

Also yes make sure there's not a charge in there

 

[Whitworth]

Since it's loaded use the nipple pick on it and then trickle a bit of power into the nipple, cap and try again.

 

[Stantheman86]

Also it seems like you're trying to fire a Blank, pretty much. The powder may have moved forward in the breech area and can't be ignited, try using a wad of newspaper over the Blank to keep the charge compressed

 

[JamesA]

You may have a broken drill or something in there from the factory.

It sounds like the gun had been fired before so I doubt it's anything from the factory. Black Powder can be a real "trip" some times, as cantankerous as some women on their [.] .

Having cleaned it three times and still just snaps a cap, I would try dribbling a very small amount of black powder through the screw hole in the side of the drum. It works. It's a pain in the a$$ but it does work. If it doesn't something is crazy wrong and a trip to a competent black powder gunsmith might be called for.

 

[JamesA]

Remove the nipple clean out the barrel with some hot soapy water flushed down the muzzle. The water should piss out the nipple hole fast and full. If not get a small pick or pipe cleaner to clear out any blockage. Thoroughly clean and dry out the barrel. While doing this let the nipple soak in a small cup with Hopps 9or an equivalent. Then use a nipple pick and toothbrush and clean it and make sure nothing is blocking it. If you have compressed air shoot it down the nipple hole should hear it flowing and do the same with the nipple. Then very lightly greased the thread of the nipple re-install. (Snug it don’t over tighten it)

Then shoot a cap or two, then load it up with powder and try it. The darn think should work!!! No reason it shouldn't.

Once, when my Hawken was acting up, I removed the nipple and shot compressed air through the drum. When I ran a patch down the barrel, the crude that came out must have been in the flash channel and the chamber. There was a lot of it, too. It looked really bad. After that though, it fired more reliably.

 

[JamesA]

Great point James, the caps may be re-enactments caps and not for loaded rounds.

That's what the retailer told me. But, it's all that is available. No #11 percussion caps anywhere and no real black powder. Just Pyrodex and CCI musket caps.