1862 second gen colt questions

[PRM]

Unfortunately, it's actually rather typical. Most of the Colt single actions, percussion and cartridge, of the last 50yrs are intended to be shown and not used. Even Colt manuals reflect this.

Really, I guess the Smiths who built my 2nd Generation Colts were left out of that memo distribution. I've been shooting my Navies since the late 70s and my pocket models since the early 80s on a fairly regular basis. I've replaced a few of trigger bolt springs and one main spring, which is not bad for over 30 years of shooting. And not uncommon for any single action of Colt design.

The statement about the manuals stating they are for show and not to be shot is totally inaccurate. Just to make sure I hadn't missed something, I dug out my "Colt Instruction Manual, Colt Cap and Ball Revolvers" that came with my gun(s) dated 1978 and after re-reading the entire manual, that statement does not exist anywhere in it. It does give specifications on loading ie: powder charge, ball and cap size... Neither does the the color pamphlet that also came with the gun(s)also dated 1978. The pamphlet states "...Made to the same designs and specifications used by Colt in the original issue, this series combines the heritage of the past with the improved metallurgy and manufacturing technologies of today."

 

[Dickydalton]

:thumbsup: :hatsoff:

 

[bigted]

well got it figured out. tried to post this but started another post instead by mistake and then somehow it got lost in siber space according to Claude

well after three different sets of nipples that screwed rite into the cylinder and still were too short I pondered the thing for awhile and examined the hammer and came up with the brilliant idea of measuring the gap between the recoil shield and the nipple end. after getting this measurement I removed the cylinder and measured the protrusion of the hammer and WALLA there it was...not enough protrusion to be reliable...missed this distance by around .090 inch or so. upon examining the inside radius of the hammer I see where the factory ground it a bit to get what protrusion there was. measuring the nipples from three different companies I found them all to have the same measurement from the thread shoulder to the top of the nipple or within around .002 inch which is close enough I recon.

so I ground the hammer inside the radius a very small bit at a time till I had the proper protrusion from the hammer.

upon blackening and rubbing and grinding till I got my needed protrusion I re assembled the revolver and took a cylinder full of caps outside and it fired all with no stutter. re capped and WALLA no stutter again ... so I loaded it with 20 grains 2f express and outside I went for a test.

man this little sweetheart is a shooter. I shot it under 1.5 inch at 25 yds and that with the small stud on the barrel. shot everytime I yanked the trigger. just shoots around 6 inch's high is all. think ill fix this sometime but for now it is a sweetie and im hoping that I got everything running properly for now.

this is so nice and lite and comfortable to shoot I don't know if my 44's will ever get a workout now... :grin:

thankyou all for the encouragement and suggestions and now all I can think about is running a few loads thru the little girl... im so glad I got it and now the fun really starts.

:bow: ... :hmm: ... :thumbsup: ... :hatsoff:

 

The statement about the manuals stating they are for show and not to be shot is totally inaccurate.

They did that for their flagship $1200 SAA. They were intended as collectibles that 'could' be fired. I've spent more time stoning the actions of my Colt's than even my Italians. I've never handled a USFA percussion gun but if they're as smooth as their cartridge guns, they'd be the one to pursue.

Bottom line and most with experience in such matters won't refute this, Colt single actions of the last 50yrs tend to be over-polished and a little rough on the inside. Jay Kirst goes so far as to say that the 2nd and 3rd generation percussion guns are no better than Uberti's. Which makes sense because Colt didn't even build the guns. They have real case colors and that's about all that can be said for them.

The point being that one cannot assume they're great guns just because they're stamped with the Colt name. Although many shooters still believe them to be.

 

[bigted]

I didn't know about the shoot in talketna and will plan to be a participant there maybe next year as this year is FULL of things I GOTTA get done...LOL. that's the thing about livin in a 9 month winter country huh? summer is and has to be planned out to get stuff done ... maybe that is the why of the procrastination we share up here in the frozen north ... easy to get side railed on the doin for something that's fun instead of the copious work that is always held over our heads when ya live outta town just a bit.

does sound like a bunch of fun tho and a question...do you guys hold this every year there in the same place? and where can I get details on the shoot?

 

[PRM]

Colt sub-contracted some parts and they did final fitting on the 2nd Generation Guns. I speak from over 30 years of experience with these guns not from someone else's opinion. I can't speak from experience on the so called "flagship" literature - but, I do have the 2nd Generation manuals and that is not in there.

I disagree with your "most with experience" statement. You obviously don't like the Colt guns, and that is your right. That in no way invalidates the opinion and experience of those who do collect and shoot them.

 

I do like the guns. I wouldn't own them if I didn't. I'm just realistic about them. Most collectors aren't. I've seen your guns and you have some nice ones. I just think it's disingenuous to imply that they're not far from perfect. They do tend to have rough actions and they ALL need an action job out of the box. There wouldn't be a whole cottage industry of tuners if they didn't.

 

[PRM]

CraigC

I will agree there is a cottage industry of tuners out there...that extends to every make, model, and caliber imagined (modern and vintage).

I have always been amazed at some of the tweaking that goes on. You got the guys who will buy a new Glock on Friday and before the weekend is over, they have already started dropping in after-market parts before ever going to the range. Essentially taking a proven firearm, designed by some of the best engineers in the industry, and in a couple of hours can tell you everything the manufacturer did wrong. And they can't even hold a candle to the 1911 venue. For they record, I like both of these too.

You mentioned USFA in a couple of post(s), what's the scoop on them? Heard they were moving and then they went out of business. I always admired the "Omnipotent" Single Action they offered for awhile. Always, regretted not getting one before they were discontinued.

 

[M. De Land]

Look up McKinley Mountain Men muzzle loader club. Get their newsletter and it will keep you posted of all rendezvous, monthly matches and the annual Territorial matches held each year at the Talkeetna range. WE camp at the dog musher track next door and have annual barbeque on Saturday night of the four day event.
I didn't make it this year at all because of getting behind on work from the float trip. I usually make it at least for the week end.
Keith Bayha is the president of the club and a fine man.Hope you can make it down next year. Mike D.

 

[M. De Land]

I can't speak to genuine Colts but I have never seen a Uberti or San Marco that did not need some work to get the best out of them.
Even ROA's can stand a trigger job from the get go.
There is a world of difference between adding parts and fitting them. Mike D.

 

[M. De Land]

Google the club Ted on line. I made a mistake, Keith is not the current president ,Mary Mathias is , Keith does run the territorials usually. Mike D.

 

USFA is defunct.

 

[bigted]

thanks MD ... next time I get free time ill check it all out.

the next "thing" happened the other day when I went to load it for my grandsons birthday ... must have happened when I cleaned up last time and I missed it ... went to wipe it down for loading and snapping a cap or two to un-oil it and realized the cylinder stop was not coming up. thinking it must be gummed somehow I tore it down and see that the spring is broken that brings the stop up and lays next to the trigger return spring. don't have a clue as to how this happened but im very blown by all the "STUFF" that keeps cropping up with this revolver.

I have parts on order but man ... maybe I better encase this into plastic and forget ever playing with it again. maybe get a uberti that can at least be shot without drama. maybe now is a good time to hunt down a '51' navie. maybe a '61' sheriff with a 5.5 inch barrel would be nice... ... :idunno: ... :shocked2:

 

[Pete G]

Bolt/trigger springs have always been a weak link in the design and modern high speed stamping machinery has not helped that situation at all. The fix is a drop in replacement; just make sure there are no sharp edges or corners and check to make sure the trigger arm of the spring is fit properly. Most replacements are supplied too long and are intended to be filed to fit.

 

[bigted]

got yhe new spring and fitted it. this spring looks and feels like a real part ... unlike the original that came in it. functions well for now. gonna try to get out and shoot it today but gots lots to do so will see.

when this runs rite it is a real peach to handle and shoot but my it is getting to be a @&*%shoot everytime I take it out. hope the '61' Pietta I got is not this way. so far it feels and looks like a keeper.... :idunno: ... :hmm: