1863 Pocket Remington Canted Barrel

[KingOfKindling]

Had bad luck buying stuff on the classifieds. Grabbed an 1863 pocket, where I thought the only real defect was a missing front sight. Turns out the barrel is also canted by about 12 degrees. Oh well, caveat emptor is apparently in effect, should have asked for more pictures. Couldn't tell it was badly canted from the provided ones.



Here's the cant. It's bad enough that I'd never be able to sight it in with a regular sight post, and the loading lever catch barely works being at such an extreme angle.




So, I need to fix this myself, would total the value of the gun to have someone else do it. Never pulled the barrel on a revolver, but I think it shouldn't be horrible as long as it isn't frozen to to the frame.

Anyone got any tips? Gonna need a very good clamp on the receiver. Hopefully the brass isn't super soft. I think I'm going to have to remove the loading lever catch (which might be brazed in place, the "solder" on it is yellow). The arbor pin won't come out with it in the way, and I don't know if the barrel will be able to turn without it in place.

If I get it off, I'll probably chuck it up in the micro lathe and slowly remove material from where the barrel seats against the frame. Anyone know what I should aim for as far as torque on the barrel goes? Just aim for snug when lined up?

Got the receiver in barrel soaking in some PB blaster right now. May let it sit for a few days just to be safe.

 

[Whitworth]

Clamp the barrel firmly between soft wood in a vise and use a hammer handle thru the frame to screw/unscrew the barrel. Soft wood that will crush around the barrel will help with the gripping action, a little powdered rosin will help too

 

[Jappo]

I've took three of them off, they were not tight at all. Just watch the cylinder pin that it doesn't get jammed. As for the rest of your problem, I've no idea. Sounds like it might be cross threaded ?

 

[KingOfKindling]

Clamp the barrel firmly between soft wood in a vise and use a hammer handle thru the frame to screw/unscrew the barrel. Soft wood that will crush around the barrel will help with the gripping action, a little powdered rosin will help too

If this were a steel framed gun that sounds like a quick way to do it. Such thin brass has me scared.

I've took three of them off, they were not tight at all. Just watch the cylinder pin that it doesn't get jammed. As for the rest of your problem, I've no idea. Sounds like it might be cross threaded ?

Good to know some aren't tight, hopefully this one is not. Also good to know on the cylinder pin, wasn't sure if the corners of the barrel would clear it when unscrewing the barrel.

Nah, no cross threading. The barrel seats evenly up against the frame the whole way round, can't get a feeler gauge between the two at all. If it were cross threaded, the barrel would be canted, and there would be a gap. I think it'd also be a superhuman feat to cross thread a barrel all the way in without destroying the brass frame.

The issue is that the gun probably wasn't built right, or was never finished. Barrel needs material removed to get things to line up, exactly like installing a breech plug / tang on a regular muzzleloader. Dunno if this thing was a kit or not. It does have proof marks on the barrel for 1984.

Surprised you didn't mention the barrel being canted when you listed this thing for sale. It's not like it's just a couple degrees. Angle gauge says 12 degrees off center.

 

[Jappo]

If this were a steel framed gun that sounds like a quick way to do it. Such thin brass has me scared.




Good to know some aren't tight, hopefully this one is not. Also good to know on the cylinder pin, wasn't sure if the corners of the barrel would clear it when unscrewing the barrel.

Nah, no cross threading. The barrel seats evenly up against the frame the whole way round, can't get a feeler gauge between the two at all. If it were cross threaded, the barrel would be canted, and there would be a gap. I think it'd also be a superhuman feat to cross thread a barrel all the way in without destroying the brass frame.

The issue is that the gun probably wasn't built right, or was never finished. Barrel needs material removed to get things to line up, exactly like installing a breech plug / tang on a regular muzzleloader. Dunno if this thing was a kit or not. It does have proof marks on the barrel for 1984.

Surprised you didn't mention the barrel being canted when you listed this thing for sale. It's not like it's just a couple degrees. Angle gauge says 12 degrees off center.

Dang, I'm sorry about that. I never noticed it. If I did I wouldn't have sold it like that.
Your welcome to send it back.
That makes me feel bad.

 

[2 shots]

is it tight now?? may need to be snugged up. i wouldnt put a stick through the frame on brass [or steel] . maybe clamp the frame in hardwood blocks and turn the barrel with a large adjustable with lead or brass shims to protect the barrel. there are better ways but i dont think you will find an action wrench for that model.if you move the barrel back ,your closing the cylinder gap..may need to file fit that also or rent a cutter.

 

[KingOfKindling]

is it tight now?? may need to be snugged up. i wouldnt put a stick through the frame on brass [or steel] . maybe clamp the frame in hardwood blocks and turn the barrel with a large adjustable with lead or brass shims to protect the barrel. there are better ways but i dont think you will find an action wrench for that model.if you move the barrel back ,your closing the cylinder gap..may need to file fit that also or rent a cutter.

Yeah, It's tight now, one of the first things I checked. It's snugged up all the way against the receiver.

I will likely need to also remove some from the tip of the barrel to get a correct barrel gap. It's already too tight.

At least I'll be able to set the gap myself. Most larger Remingtons, both Peitta and Uberti seem too have an excessive gap compared to colt guns. Dunno if that's how they were historically or not.

 

[Rawhide67]

You can also use a coil of very fine wire around the area just forward of the threads, relief cut, before the octagon starts.

 

[Nobade]

Those usually have a lot of "mash" to them. I'm betting you could just tighten it. Or loosen and tighten a couple of times, but that may make it go too far.

 

[maillemaker]

I have re-clocked the barrel on a Pietta Spiller and Burr as was described above.

Chuck up the barrel in a vice, using thick leather to protect the barrel.

Insert an appropriate-sized block of wood through the receiver (with cylinder removed, of course). I do not recommend something like a hammer handle as this will have a single point of contact on the top strap. Use a rectangular block of wood that generally fills the void so that you get good even contact all along the top strap, particularly near where it joins the rest of the frame.

Then you can gently twist the frame on the barrel. In my case, I had to unthread very slightly.

Looks like you have to tighten. If you cannot get it to tighten further, you may have to remove the barrel and remove material to get the barrel to seat ever so slightly deeper. Bear in mind this could affect your cylinder-to-barrel clearance.

 

[KingOfKindling]

Those usually have a lot of "mash" to them. I'm betting you could just tighten it. Or loosen and tighten a couple of times, but that may make it go too far.

I have re-clocked the barrel on a Pietta Spiller and Burr as was described above.

Chuck up the barrel in a vice, using thick leather to protect the barrel.

Insert an appropriate-sized block of wood through the receiver (with cylinder removed, of course). I do not recommend something like a hammer handle as this will have a single point of contact on the top strap. Use a rectangular block of wood that generally fills the void so that you get good even contact all along the top strap, particularly near where it joins the rest of the frame.

Then you can gently twist the frame on the barrel. In my case, I had to unthread very slightly.

Looks like you have to tighten. If you cannot get it to tighten further, you may have to remove the barrel and remove material to get the barrel to seat ever so slightly deeper. Bear in mind this could affect your cylinder-to-barrel clearance.

Yeah, that's why I was wondering about torque specs. I know there will be some stretching, just don't want to overdo it, especially since I don't know how far it was pushed in the past. Don't want to stretch things too far and end up launching the barrel down range when I fire it.

I think I may 3D print a clamshell style action block so that I can get the maximum amount of contact and can avoid messing up the receiver. Then I can remove the barrel, and inspect the receiver threads before trying to do any tightening.

 

[Nobade]

Before you make a wrench, you might try clamping the barrel and see if you can turn the frame by hand. It may have never been fully tightened.

 

[KingOfKindling]

Before you make a wrench, you might try clamping the barrel and see if you can turn the frame by hand. It may have never been fully tightened.

Yeah, tried that right off, wouldn't budge. However, it came off without too much trouble after soaking for a couple days in the pb blaster.

Was just corrosion holding the barrel to the frame. Cleaned up ok though. The frame threads look perfect so I don't think it was ever fully torqued down. Gonna look and see if I can find the instructions for the kits and see if they say anything about barrel install.