1864-produced Remington 1858 New Model Army: trigger weight should be???

[bczrx]

Hello,

I am working my civil war era Remington 1858 over to make sure it is operating smoothly and safely. In doing so I found it had a HEAVY trigger weight. When I picked it up it was around 10lbs.

I am familiar with trigger jobs on SA revolvers and most of mine are in the 3-4 lb range. They ARE Ruger BH and SBH though.

My Uberti, Pietta and Ruger OA are actually in the 2.5-4.5lb range.


I detail stripped, cleaned, cleaned again, polished spring/trigger and spring/hammer interfaces and then took my stones to the trigger and hammer to smoothen the interface. The hammer had a lip on the sear from the trigger and the trigger was a bit rough as well as uneven.

Now they looks almost perfect to me and 20 pulls on the trigger with the trigger scale said it was averaging around 5lbs 14oz.

However I now see that pulling the trigger moves the hammer back a tad [positive engagement].

I don't recall that happening before.

This is a shooter-grade 1858, not a collector grade, so I don' mind replacing some parts if needed.

That said, I was wondering if this weight was in the 'normal' range for something this old or if I should change the angle on the trigger just a smidge to get neutral engagement, which should also reduce the trigger pull weight by 1/2 to 1lbs, I would think.

I am hesitant to work on the hammer any more, as too much work means I have to buy a new one and I think a replacement trigger would both be easier to find and less conspicuous.

Do any of you have any thoughts of my proposed process? Anything I am missing?

Thank you

 

[CyrusP]

I’m thinking the previous heaviness masked the positive sear engagement a bit and you are just noticing it now because you’re not working so hard to pull the trigger. You didn’t change any angles as you said, it should not have changed. I did take a pistol smithing class with Hamilton Bowen 21 years ago but I’ve forgotten much since then. The range seems right in my non-expert opinion.

 

[wiscoaster]

Hello,

I am working my civil war era Remington 1858 over to make sure it is operating smoothly and safely. In doing so I found it had a HEAVY trigger weight. When I picked it up it was around 10lbs.
....
Do any of you have any thoughts of my proposed process? Anything I am missing?

What's your goal? Shooting a repro of an 1858 revolver? I doubt they were too concerned with trigger weight back in the day. If it shoots, it's good to go. OTH, if you're looking for a competition pistol with a competition trigger, there are people here that can tune it to be that, if that's what your goal is.

 

[bczrx]

What's your goal? Shooting a repro of an 1858 revolver? I doubt they were too concerned with trigger weight back in the day. If it shoots, it's good to go. OTH, if you're looking for a competition pistol with a competition trigger, there are people here that can tune it to be that, if that's what your goal is.

My goal is to be able to shoot an original Civil War revolver and hit the target without a lot of muzzle motion from trigger pull.

For competition I would go with either the Uberti or Pietta. If I wanted max power I'd go with a Ruger Old Army.

I was just considering dropping the pull weight a bit more as my SA revolvers [BP and cartridge] are under 4.5lb and this is more like 5.75-5.9lbs.

I could probably live with the 5.75lbs but prefer neutral sear/hammer engagement. Once I get there, I feel the action will be lighter also.

I don't want a sub-2lb trigger though. I have that on a couple rimfires and I am VERY restrictive of who I let fire them.

 

[Smokerr]

Yea on the 22, my Model 41 you just breath on it and it fires. See note:

I think whatever works for you. Safety on these is not like a heavy DA pull and once cocked its trigger discipline that counts (no finger on trigger unless you mean for it to go off)

note: We had a stray dog get in the back yard under the gate and our cat was out there and it was a mean looking dog.

Only gun I had handy that was loaded was the Model 41. I opened up a gate for the dog and tried to heard it out. I came right at me.

I have a bead on his his, squeezing the trigger and I said out loud, you don't want to to this. I was amazed, he did a 90 deg right turn and out the gate. Phew. It has to be with a hundredth of an oz of pull to going off. I was impressed I could get that close and back it off.

 

[M. De Land]

Hello,

I am working my civil war era Remington 1858 over to make sure it is operating smoothly and safely. In doing so I found it had a HEAVY trigger weight. When I picked it up it was around 10lbs.

I am familiar with trigger jobs on SA revolvers and most of mine are in the 3-4 lb range. They ARE Ruger BH and SBH though.

My Uberti, Pietta and Ruger OA are actually in the 2.5-4.5lb range.


I detail stripped, cleaned, cleaned again, polished spring/trigger and spring/hammer interfaces and then took my stones to the trigger and hammer to smoothen the interface. The hammer had a lip on the sear from the trigger and the trigger was a bit rough as well as uneven.

Now they looks almost perfect to me and 20 pulls on the trigger with the trigger scale said it was averaging around 5lbs 14oz.

However I now see that pulling the trigger moves the hammer back a tad [positive engagement].

I don't recall that happening before.

This is a shooter-grade 1858, not a collector grade, so I don' mind replacing some parts if needed.

That said, I was wondering if this weight was in the 'normal' range for something this old or if I should change the angle on the trigger just a smidge to get neutral engagement, which should also reduce the trigger pull weight by 1/2 to 1lbs, I would think.

I am hesitant to work on the hammer any more, as too much work means I have to buy a new one and I think a replacement trigger would both be easier to find and less conspicuous.

Do any of you have any thoughts of my proposed process? Anything I am missing?

Thank you

The first order of business of any trigger work is safety achieved by full width and reduced depth engagement with square contact in both axis. There should be no hammer movement until the trigger nose releases it. Once this is achieved then the safest method of reducing trigger pull weight is to limit engagement surface contact. Everything stays square and plumb and only the reduction in friction of these surfaces is what should occur . I use a sear lift on the hammer which does not effect engagement square and plumb but only limits depth of engagement contact. The triggers should always be tested for bump off by shock load after any work which I conduct by use of a rawhide hammer on the frame or barrel front and trigger bow. If the trigger engagement cannot be jarred (or pushed) off full cock with a sharp rap from these areas then it is a safe trigger and will remain so for many years of service .
Most of mine are 1.5 lbs and cannot be jarred off face by impact .

 

[wiscoaster]

sorry, comment deleted and thread unwatched.

 

[Relic shooter]

Hello,

I am working my civil war era Remington 1858 over to make sure it is operating smoothly and safely. In doing so I found it had a HEAVY trigger weight. When I picked it up it was around 10lbs.

I am familiar with trigger jobs on SA revolvers and most of mine are in the 3-4 lb range. They ARE Ruger BH and SBH though.

My Uberti, Pietta and Ruger OA are actually in the 2.5-4.5lb range.


I detail stripped, cleaned, cleaned again, polished spring/trigger and spring/hammer interfaces and then took my stones to the trigger and hammer to smoothen the interface. The hammer had a lip on the sear from the trigger and the trigger was a bit rough as well as uneven.

Now they looks almost perfect to me and 20 pulls on the trigger with the trigger scale said it was averaging around 5lbs 14oz.

However I now see that pulling the trigger moves the hammer back a tad [positive engagement].

I don't recall that happening before.

This is a shooter-grade 1858, not a collector grade, so I don' mind replacing some parts if needed.

That said, I was wondering if this weight was in the 'normal' range for something this old or if I should change the angle on the trigger just a smidge to get neutral engagement, which should also reduce the trigger pull weight by 1/2 to 1lbs, I would think.

I am hesitant to work on the hammer any more, as too much work means I have to buy a new one and I think a replacement trigger would both be easier to find and less conspicuous.

Do any of you have any thoughts of my proposed process? Anything I am missing?

Thank you

I also shoot original C&B Colts & Remingtons.
The stock trigger pull on my orig 58 Remington NMA revolvers do vary some at about 5-6 lbs & same on an unfired example I have.

I personally have no issues lightening the trigger pulls on ones I compete with.
Typically the full cock notch on the hammer has a bit of a ledge for the trigger to climb out of & just requires a little stoning to reduce the incline.

Some original springs under the trigger guard are overly stiff & increase trigger pull, rather than rework the original spring, consider buying a repro spring for Uberti of same model or can make a wire spring replacement to obtain a match grade trigger.

 

[bczrx]

Hello All,

Well, I have [almost] finished the repairs to this revolver. I did more stoning and now the trigger pull is around 4.5lbs. I would say I am done EXCEPT that there is still a bit of positive hammer engagement and the trigger feels 'grittier' than it did before.

I need to pull it apart one more time for smoothening/polishing all surfaces.

Once it is all smooth should I try to re-surface harden the hammer edge and trigger sear edge? I have the Brownells surface hardening compound already from other projects.


Oh, I also got a new cylinder stop/bolt and fitted it to prevent the cylinder from moving around so much. Now the stop locks the cylinder up with no rattling side to side and the bore is aligned with the cylinder.

 

[Relic shooter]

Sounds like your about ready for some competition shooting bczrx
Judging by originals I've tuned I doubt the hammer notch & sear will need to re-hardened after stoning.
If concerned can rub handle tip of a file, not the cutting surface over face of the notch & sear tip to check hardness.
Have you measured cylinder & bore sizes, some originals like a ball size bigger than .454.
Enjoy !

 

[bczrx]

Thanks Relic Shooter.

I appreciate the tip on the file for testing hardness.

I haven't measured the cylinder/bore sizes but am prepared for larger ball sizes.

I have .451 for my Piettas and .454 for my Ubertis, as well as .457 for my Ruger Old Armys. So I have the different ball sizes, I just need to measure and test. In other words- have a fun weekend!

 

[bczrx]

Final (?) Updated. Took the trigger out and adjusted the angle, polished it smooth and level with an arkansas stone, dressed the breaking angle a tad and reinstalled.

Now definitely lighter. I'd say in the mid-low 4s. I don't feel a need to get it any lighter than this. Smooth and crisp. And neutral hammer engagement. As I slowly squeeze the hammer it no longer 'cocks back' a tad before release and it doesn't slip lower before release. It is still until release.

Just the way I want it.

Now to wait for the 'smith to replace the nipples on my cylinder.

After that I need to carve out range time and cleaning time.

All is looking good.

It will be fun to compare Pietta to Uberti to Original Remington 1858. Maybe pull the Walker and ROA out for more fun.