1871 BSA

[Bama Reb]

Any info on this firearm would be greatly appreciated, I haven’t seen it in person, only the pictures i have posted here, it’s for sale not too far from me, don’t know if barrel is rifled or smooth bore, I thought by 1871 that percussion guns had ceased production and inventory left over converted to the Snider conversions, reckon what it’s worth? No barrel bands on it like military firearms. Shotgun ?

 

[desi23]

It looks like a mix of features from a coupe different gun styles. The style of the stock is closer to the early pattern British percussion muskets (and older flint ones) than the later Enfield rifled muskets. It has a simple fixed rear sight, there are no escutcheons around the lock bolts and the hammer isn't shaped quite right to my eyes (looks like a modified Snider hammer to me). Trigger guard looks like an East India Model F musket part. As a side note the sling with the hook is for a much more recent gun design too.

My first guess would be someone built a gun using parts they had. If there are any visible proof marks or names (check the underside of the barrel) they might help date the barrel but even that doesn't prove who built this. Any idea where it came from? It looks better built than the "tourist" pieces so common in the middle east and other areas. Indian made? Kyhber Pass gun? I suppose it could have been made for arming some native contingent that wasn't trusted with current models but unless another show up I suspect it was more of a "one off" piece.

 

[Bama Reb]

It looks like a mix of features from a coupe different gun styles. The style of the stock is closer to the early pattern British percussion muskets (and older flint ones) than the later Enfield rifled muskets. It has a simple fixed rear sight, there are no escutcheons around the lock bolts and the hammer isn't shaped quite right to my eyes (looks like a modified Snider hammer to me). Trigger guard looks like an East India Model F musket part. As a side note the sling with the hook is for a much more recent gun design too.

My first guess would be someone built a gun using parts they had. If there are any visible proof marks or names (check the underside of the barrel) they might help date the barrel but even that doesn't prove who built this. Any idea where it came from? It looks better built than the "tourist" pieces so common in the middle east and other areas. Indian made? Kyhber Pass gun? I suppose it could have been made for arming some native contingent that wasn't trusted with current models but unless another show up I suspect it was more of a "one off" piece.

All I know is that owner said he acquired it in a trade about 10 years ago from an old man that had it hanging over his fireplace and his kids didn’t want it, reckon what it’s worth? He wants $450 bottom dollar…

 

[Treestalker]

Lock is marked BSA Co, that's maybe Birmingham Small Arms Co., Limited. The crown with V.R. stands for Victoria Rex, or Queen Victoria.

 

[Bama Reb]

Lock is marked BSA Co, that's maybe Birmingham Small Arms Co., Limited. The crown with V.R. stands for Victoria Rex, or Queen Victoria.

Ten four, I was already aware of that, have you got any idea of a value on this firearm? And why was a percussion gun made in 1871 with centerfire rifles being made by then.

 

[Sam squanch]

From India. Worth around $400 if the bore is good. If all pitted out it’s worth less. Neat gun though.

 

[Treestalker]

Not sure, but the Brits typically armed native folks with a lesser system firearm. Like, you can have a muzzleloader, but we will have bolt actions, etc.

 

[Eterry]

Ten four, I was already aware of that, have you got any idea of a value on this firearm? And why was a percussion gun made in 1871 with centerfire rifles being made by then.

Muzzleloaders were common for years, even decades in remote regions, after the introduction of more modern technology. That's the way with most improvements.
Old technology is familiar and hard to give up.
The same thing happened with the invention of percussion caps, many hung on to flintlocks.

The barrel is the heart of any muzzleloader, I'd want to inspect it before buying, unless you want a wall hanger.

 

[Bama Reb]

Thanks guys

 

[TFoley]

Lock is marked BSA Co, that's maybe Birmingham Small Arms Co., Limited. The crown with V.R. stands for Victoria Rex, or Queen Victoria.

Rex = King - Regina = Queen.

 

[TFoley]

Not sure, but the Brits typically armed native folks with a lesser system firearm. Like, you can have a muzzleloader, but we will have bolt actions, etc.

The smooth-bored musket version of the P53 rifle and rifled musket issued by British in India, after the Indian Mutiny of 1857, was a quality firearm by any standards, and although the lock is probably from a genuine BSA-made contract musket or even P53 rifle, the rest certainly is not.

At the time that the British were arming the locally-raised Sepoy regiments, the in-service long-arm was the P53 Enfield or Contract-made arm, and NOT any kind of bolt-action rifle.

 

[TFoley]

And why was a percussion gun made in 1871 with centerfire rifles being made by then.

This is true, the first centrefire rifle being the Winchester. But the British military did NOT adopt ANY kind of breechloader until the advent of the Snider conversion - this was carried out initially to the P53 Enfield rifle. Like any government, the British were very slow to adopt anything modern by way of a service arm, in much the same way that the American government went to war with the Spanish in 1895 with the same single-shot Trapdoor Springfield rifle that Custer had taken to the Little Big Horn in 1876.

The Spanish, OTOH, had the modern five-shot, bolt-action Mauser...

 

[Bama Reb]

I’m going to fetch the 1871 tonight for $200, and I’ve got a 50-70 govt trapdoor as well as other old firearms from the 1800’s I’ll post pics of later

 

[Bama Reb]

I’m going to fetch the 1871 tonight for $200, and I’ve got a 50-70 govt trapdoor as well as other old firearms from the 1800’s I’ll post pics of later

TFoley, since you mentioned the Mauser and fighting the Spanish thought I’d mention what my GrandUncle used to tell me, he was married to my Grandmothers sister, anyway Uncle Steve had an uncle (no relation to me) that was one of the Rough Riders that was with Teddy Roosevelt at San Juan Hill, his Uncle carried a 12 gauge double barrel there, well Uncle Steve inherited the old double barrel and my brother has it now.

 

[Bama Reb]

Just got home with it, it’s way bigger than a 58 cal, inside the bore of the muzzle measures almost 7/8” wide using a measuring tape, I’ll get my caliper out in the morning and see what it shows

 

[Bama Reb]

Well caliper shows I’ve got an 80 caliber, never new 80’s were made. Is this a rare bird I’ve found?

 

[user 48702]

Bore diameter of a 10 gauge is .775 and a 9 gauge is .803.

 

[Bama Reb]

Bore measures .814

 

[vintovka]

Could the lock have come from a Snider conversion hence the 1871 date? The hammer shape may be a clue.

 

[Bama Reb]

It’s very possible concerning the lock, Gunny5821 mentioned shotgun bore dimensions, the ramrod on it is not a shotgun ramrod.