20 gauge load experiments---results with and without SkyChief method

[RyanGeiler]

Range = 25 yards
Gun = 20 Gauge Pedersoli Deluxe SXS CYL/MOD

Load Info Below

Photo Results attached.

I had multiple sheets but only uploaded photos from the eyeball 'mean' of the two types. The trend was the same. The only one I didn't have multiple tests on was the damn cylinder choke side---I don't know why I didn't think to test that more @ 25 yards but at the end of the session I realized--damn it I didn't try the other choke! It had the prettiest pattern but I didn't have the time to try a non-SkyChief to see if it was the choke or the method.

Disregarding the choke test, it appears that:'

SkyChief puts more pellets within 20" at 25 yards, consistently.
Typical load puts more pellets within 3" consistently (and more vital hits) but less overall pellets in 20"

So....SkyChief for pigeons and Typical for Turkey? Not what I was expecting . Of course, the Pedersoli 20 ga. Deluxe is a smooth bore and I'm not sure if that is making a difference. Next weekend I plan on doing nothing but choke/cylinder tests at 25 yards.

Thoughts?

 

[Brokennock]

Interesting results. Thank you for sharing.
The only thought/question I have is about the targets. Did you place a large (really very large) sheet of blank paper behind the turkey targets? I ask because I am wondering if the most dense part of the pattern was not at the point of aim. Especially given that this test is with a side by side gun and it is tough to tell at what distance the center of the pattern will converge with the center of the gun.

Thanks again for sharing.

 

[Canadian Dragoon]

How many shots with each load? I ask because mine shoot’s inconsistent patterns with some shot/powder combinations.

 

[Pukka Bundook]

Ryan,
I would like to recommend trying the same with a reduced powder load.
I don't mean a Weak load, but say 2 1/4 drams (say 60 grains), and an ounce or an ounce and a quarter of shot.
My old (original) double would hold a pattern of 40 percent at 40 yards with that load, and normal felt wads, or even ivy leaves in very dry weather.
It can take a bit to find out what a gun likes best, but too much pressure is your enemy.

All the best,
Rich.

 

[Patocazador]

The fiber wad produced a hole in my patterns (donut) using the "typical" loading procedure. I tried splitting the fiber wad in half sideways and in thirds sideways. Both ways produced better patterns. I use 1/3 of a fiber wad soaked in corn oil now and have good success with doves.

I also never use a finer powder than 2F. In fact, 1F does a real good job with large charges. However, my 2 SxS shotguns are 12 ga.

 

[Pukka Bundook]

Pat,
Colonel Hawker in his book "Instructions...." (7th edition, 1833) states a wad should be no thicker than a third of the diameter of the bore.
This seems close to the wads you are describing and you are right!
You are also on the money re. powder granulation. coarser powder+ milder pressures = improved patterns.

Best,
R.

 

[Elzay]

Good stuff! Makes me wanna do some tests myself.

 

[azmntman]

I had excellent results on my 20ga SS with Cyl Cyl using skycheif loads. Not very well at all with reg loads (would not hunt with them). I have now had the dang thing jug chocked but have yet to fire it and test. BTW my new theroy on why Skycheif works so well is that the soaked heavy arsed wadds creates a suction behind it for a few inches as it leaves the barrel and this pulls the shot along in a better "line". I can see it in my head but my head and others often talk about stuff differently so hope that makes since?

Anyone know if I should just load the same as before or does the jug choke change the load sequesnce or components?

 

[Brokennock]

I had excellent results on my 20ga SS with Cyl Cyl using skycheif loads. Not very well at all with reg loads (would not hunt with them). I have now had the dang thing jug chocked but have yet to fire it and test. BTW my new theroy on why Skycheif works so well is that the soaked heavy arsed wadds creates a suction behind it for a few inches as it leaves the barrel and this pulls the shot along in a better "line". I can see it in my head but my head and others often talk about stuff differently so hope that makes since?

Anyone know if I should just load the same as before or does the jug choke change the load sequesnce or components?

I would start testing with whatever load worked best before.
But testing is essential.

 

[RyanGeiler]

Interesting results. Thank you for sharing.
The only thought/question I have is about the targets. Did you place a large (really very large) sheet of blank paper behind the turkey targets? I ask because I am wondering if the most dense part of the pattern was not at the point of aim. Especially given that this test is with a side by side gun and it is tough to tell at what distance the center of the pattern will converge with the center of the gun.

Thanks again for sharing.

Damn, that's a great idea I didn't think of (large paper behind Turkey target). I will use that this coming weekend if weather complies on my next round of tests.

How many shots with each load? I ask because mine shoot’s inconsistent patterns with some shot/powder combinations.

8 shots with each type of load. Only 1 with the cylinder because I forgot about testing it and didn't think about it until 1 load was left of my pre-loads. By that time I was getting a bit bored and my pup was trying to talk me into taking the shotty and go varmint hunting across the creek--so I grabbed my traditional and let him run a bit.

Ryan,
I would like to recommend trying the same with a reduced powder load.
I don't mean a Weak load, but say 2 1/4 drams (say 60 grains), and an ounce or an ounce and a quarter of shot.
My old (original) double would hold a pattern of 40 percent at 40 yards with that load, and normal felt wads, or even ivy leaves in very dry weather.
It can take a bit to find out what a gun likes best, but too much pressure is your enemy.

All the best,
Rich.

Likely very good advice Rich. When I first got my Flintlock 50 cal, I was insistent on over-powdering. Dunno why, the male in me I guess (more power argh argh argh). I'll reduce load down to 65 and giver her a go.

The fiber wad produced a hole in my patterns (donut) using the "typical" loading procedure. I tried splitting the fiber wad in half sideways and in thirds sideways. Both ways produced better patterns. I use 1/3 of a fiber wad soaked in corn oil now and have good success with doves.

I also never use a finer powder than 2F. In fact, 1F does a real good job with large charges. However, my 2 SxS shotguns are 12 ga.

Pat,
Colonel Hawker in his book "Instructions...." (7th edition, 1833) states a wad should be no thicker than a third of the diameter of the bore.
This seems close to the wads you are describing and you are right!
You are also on the money re. powder granulation. coarser powder+ milder pressures = improved patterns.

Best,
R.

This is interesting to read on the cut fiber wad. I had read that the back pressure of the wad helps tighten spread but this couldn't be the case if it was smaller than bore. I'll try one or two of those this next test sessions just to see what happens.

If the last fiber wad isn't for back pressure--and it's only a 1/3 of the barrel--what is the wad doing to shot? Does it prevent it from bouncing in the barrel at exits or?

Thanks everyone for the great replies, more testing soon.

 

[Pukka Bundook]

Ryan,
Sorry for the confusion on the wad!!
What Col. Hawker meant, by a third the diameter of the bore, was if the bore was say .60 cal, the wad should be no more than .20 in Thickness but should be the full diameter of the bore plus a bit for a good tight fit.
Does this make sense now?
Apologies for the confusion!

 

[RyanGeiler]

Ok second round of testing done. I'm sharing 5 results. 4 of those results are the 'mean' results from the shooting today and I think most accurately display my findings. The 5th result was my typical standard 12 gauge Benelli I turkey hunt with. I wanted to get a pulse for how my best muzzleloader load stacked up against it.

First thing to say, Rich/Pudda you were right on the money. Changing to 65 gr made a tremendous difference. If you are googling "Best Turkey load for muzzleloader" and find this thread, do not be stubborn like me and try to over-powder your gun. Listen to the guys with experience on this forum and I have the photos in this thread to prove them right!

Results @ 25 yards, low wind:

See attached photos for the targets.

So a few things I learned:

1. Listen to the forum, don't over-powder your gun
2. The SkyChief method had a more drastic change from over-powder compared to normal loads.
3. I will not miss that Benelli 3" turkey load kick this season

That Modified SkyChief load was within a hair of my 12 gauge Benelli load--consistently! That really shocked me. That load is dynamite coming out of that Modified barrel! I believe I can take ethical shots at a Tom this season now with my muzzleloader. Once again, many many thanks to this forum for all the tips/help/suggestions, you're all a great bunch. Here's hoping I'll update this thread come April/May with a gobbler on the ground.

 

[Pukka Bundook]

I don't think a turkey could survive even your worst pattern, Ryan!

Pleased it's working for you.

Now, if you increase your No 5 shot to an ounce and a quarter, all else the same, ...it would be very interesting!
My duck load in a 15 bore was 2 & 1/4 drams and 1 1/4 ounces No 4, (English) so same size shot as your No 5.
That your little 20 is doing pretty near as well as the Benelli 12 ga. is telling you something Ryan.

 

[Brokennock]

Ok second round of testing done. I'm sharing 5 results. 4 of those results are the 'mean' results from the shooting today and I think most accurately display my findings. The 5th result was my typical standard 12 gauge Benelli I turkey hunt with. I wanted to get a pulse for how my best muzzleloader load stacked up against it.

First thing to say, Rich/Pudda you were right on the money. Changing to 65 gr made a tremendous difference. If you are googling "Best Turkey load for muzzleloader" and find this thread, do not be stubborn like me and try to over-powder your gun. Listen to the guys with experience on this forum and I have the photos in this thread to prove them right!

Results @ 25 yards, low wind:

View attachment 201586


See attached photos for the targets.

So a few things I learned:

1. Listen to the forum, don't over-powder your gun
2. The SkyChief method had a more drastic change from over-powder compared to normal loads.
3. I will not miss that Benelli 3" turkey load kick this season

That IC SkyChief load was within a hair of my 12 gauge Benelli load--consistently! That really shocked me. That load is dynamite coming out of that IC barrel! I believe I can take ethical shots at a Tom this season now with my muzzleloader. Once again, many many thanks to this forum for all the tips/help/suggestions, you're all a great bunch. Here's hoping I'll update this thread come April/May with a gobbler on the ground.

Maybe I am reading your chart wrong, but it looks like your looser choke is far outperforming your tighter choke. Is this correct or a typo?

Either way this is very impressive and fantastic of you to do such detailed work and share it with us.
Thank you.

 

[Brokennock]

If you are googling "Best Turkey load for muzzleloader" and find this thread, do not be stubborn like me and try to over-powder your gun. Listen to the guys with experience on this forum

Interesting statement. Very true for the most part.
For those same folks googling this information. Test, test, test. Listen to the experienced guys, especially those who post actual results. But test. Test in your gun, make adjustments, and test some more. Guns are different, conditions are different, needs are different. And what works for some doesn't always work for the next guy/gun. Our o.p. here did not have the usual good results from the Skychief load, he made adjustments and tested again.

I will say that he has touched on one of the very few pieces of advice that is almost always true, less powder than shot by volume will produce better patterns and trying to get too much power out of your shot load will ruin them.

 

[RyanGeiler]

Maybe I am reading your chart wrong, but it looks like your looser choke is far outperforming your tighter choke. Is this correct or a typo?

Either way this is very impressive and fantastic of you to do such detailed work and share it with us.
Thank you.

Yikes I'm glad you pointed that out--I had wrong labels throughout. I fixed the post up as to not confuse anyone that stumbles on this thread--the Modified barrel performed best, not the IC. Pictures/File updated, thanks for catching that! Thanks again for all the help, your mentioning of SkyChief in another thread is what turned me on to it.

 

[Brokennock]

Yikes I'm glad you pointed that out--I had wrong labels throughout. I fixed the post up as to not confuse anyone that stumbles on this thread--the Modified barrel performed best, not the IC. Pictures/File updated, thanks for catching that! Thanks again for all the help, your mentioning of SkyChief in another thread is what turned me on to it.

Thanks for the update.
The reload of the chart photo isn't showing up. Can you repost the corrected version please. I would like to add it to my files if you don't mind.

 

[RyanGeiler]

Updated--I can't remove the bad call/link to the old file above it and it doesn't display in the editor--must be some raw HTML stuck in the background. Anyways, new photo added

 

[tom_in_vt]

Interesting results. Thanks for sharing

 

[Brokennock]

Updated--I can't remove the bad call/link to the old file above it and it doesn't display in the editor--must be some raw HTML stuck in the background. Anyways, new photo added

Thanks