2024 cap update, bad and the bad

[leadhoarder]

Being new to muzzleloading, I haven't had years when things where plentiful to accumulate a reserve of supplies, haven't been able to find #11 caps anywhere online, cleaned out a local gunshop who had enough to last me a couple months,

Academy, Bass Pro Shops, Dick's, the other 20+ gunshops in town had Nada! I bought 2 nipples to convert my T/C Hawken to use Musket caps, and have even considered buying a flintlock, in the event I run out completely before I can find anymore.

Wanted to ask if a nipple could be modified to use a standard rifle or shotgun primer?

There is an adapter on the market that lets you use different primers but it is a pain to use as you have to unscrew the top half of it to install or remove a primer.

 

[SDSmlf]

I watched that video, and i disagree with one thing he said. Ethan said if you were in Walmart and saw some caps, to just buy a few tins, and leave the rest for some other fellas. Well, that is a nice gesture, and it is exactly what I did last fall. I got plenty of caps, so I just got 3 tins for $5.62, leaving 17 on the hook. Not 30 secinds later, a low grade poltroon that I recognize from his table at the local gun shows, swoops in and takes all the remaining caps. Saw him in December selling those caps for $35 per 100. I should have bought them all and gave them away, and that is exactly what i will do next time. Buy caps when you can, and pass them out to your muzzleloading friends. If you don't, those scurvy buzzards are surely going to, and they will sell them for 700% mark-up.

Yep, leave some caps for the next buyer. And no good deed at WallyWorld goes unpunished……

Unfortunately, what @PastorB observed is likely very common to occur. Took grief here for previously posting what is below, but I beat a known local WallyWorld Scalper (he has actually told the clerks what he was doing) to 10 packs of CCI caps last summer. Confirmed later at a local gun show the guy was stocked up and selling caps and other WallyWorld items at 5x or greater the WallyWorld price.

Previously posted. This past July a guy in front of me at the WallyWorld sporting goods counter said he wanted all the caps that were available and they rang him up. Then my old friend karma showed up. The customer’s plastic didn’t work for some reason. Told the clerk he had to go find his wife and get the checkbook. The clerk then asked what I wanted and I pointed at the caps, and she said how many? I asked about the previous customer, and she told me he buys stuff all the time to sell at gun shows and not to worry. I felt a little guilty as I paid for all ten packs, but that went away as I was leaving the counter and saw the other customer headed back with his checkbook in hand. I didn’t really need caps that day, but that’s 10 packs some scalper will not be selling. And they won’t go to waste.

It’s just easier to give someone a tin of caps when they need them and tell them not to worry about paying me when I have less than $6 into replacements instead of $35 or so. Doesn’t change my appreciation of the thank you I get. And when it involves getting a kid shooting it really feels good.

 

[kyron4]

Yep, leave some caps for the next buyer. And no good deed at WallyWorld goes unpunished……

Unfortunately, what @PastorB observed is likely very common to occur. Took grief here for previously posting what is below, but I beat a known local WallyWorld Scalper (he has actually told the clerks what he was doing) to 10 packs of CCI caps last summer. Confirmed later at a local gun show the guy was stocked up and selling caps and other WallyWorld items at 5x or greater the WallyWorld price.

Previously posted. This past July a guy in front of me at the WallyWorld sporting goods counter said he wanted all the caps that were available and they rang him up. Then my old friend karma showed up. The customer’s plastic didn’t work for some reason. Told the clerk he had to go find his wife and get the checkbook. The clerk then asked what I wanted and I pointed at the caps, and she said how many? I asked about the previous customer, and she told me he buys stuff all the time to sell at gun shows and not to worry. I felt a little guilty as I paid for all ten packs, but that went away as I was leaving the counter and saw the other customer headed back with his checkbook in hand. I didn’t really need caps that day, but that’s 10 packs some scalper will not be selling. And they won’t go to waste.

It’s just easier to give someone a tin of caps when they need them and tell them not to worry about paying me when I have less than $6 into replacements instead of $35 or so. Doesn’t change my appreciation of the thank you I get. And when it involves getting a kid shooting it really feels good.

 

[Coinneach]

That’s the thing. I can understand some folks stocking up on caps. But the thought of folks buying up all they can get and then turn around and try to gouge others just to make a few dollars is unacceptable.

Its was the same with Beaver Plews Henry, when you argued with that damn Frenchie Fontenelle remember ?

 

[dpasek]

I the option of making ones own caps is the way forward, finding the best cap making kit is my challenge any advice/guidance is welcome.

I totally agree. The way forward is to stock up on precursor chemicals for several different primer formulations that you personally find suitable, get together the equipment and tooling necessary to complete the process, and do several trial runs to determine reliability. That is how I have decided to proceed. I will purchase commercial caps as the opportunity arises. I am also going to put together a couple of flintlock rifles and set up the necessary equipment to make my own adequately high quality black powder in small batches. There are enough informational resources available that most anyone should be able to accomplish this.

I had not been actively shooting BP for some years, so I missed the last round of percussion cap supply. I was watching high power supplies and have enough rifle primers to last me for a while.

I wonder if there might be a way to make a special nipple that would accept rifle or pistol primers...

 

[dpasek]

Thanks @kyron4 for starting the thread. I'm interested in what happens to US cap production under Remington and CCI's new ownership, and found this in a Vista press release from 10/16/2023. I'm sure some have seen this stuff but for those who haven't:
"ANOKA, Minn.--(BUSINESS WIRE)-- Vista Outdoor Inc. (NYSE: VSTO) (“Vista Outdoor”), the parent company of 41 renowned brands that design, manufacture and market sporting and outdoor products to consumers around the globe, today announced a definitive agreement to sell its Sporting Products business to Czechoslovak Group a.s. (“CSG”)"
"CSG is a leading industrial technology holding company, operating within five strategic business segments, including defense, aerospace, ammunition, mobility and business. CSG is 100% owned and led by Michal Strnad, who has transformed it into a leading Czech industrial group with a strong international footprint. CSG employs more than 10,000 people worldwide and it owns and manages a diverse portfolio of industrial and trade companies across the defense and civil sectors."
Stop yawning, there's more:
"To effect the transaction, Vista Outdoor will separate its Outdoor Products business from its Sporting Products business, and CSG will merge one of its subsidiaries with Vista Outdoor (holding only the Sporting Products business)..."
From American Rifleman:
"Upon closing, Vanderbrink will remain CEO of the Sporting Products business and the U.S. headquarters will remain in Anoka, Minn. In connection with the transaction, the company’s approximately 4,000 employees who represent four factories and the consumer brands CCI, Federal, HEVI-Shot, Remington and Speer will continue their heritage of community and conservation support through local and national organizations."
Lost me there...
The CSG website does not presently include Remington or CCI in their ammo division. They do own Fiocchi, a big producer of primers. And just bought Perazzi. Their site states "CSG's main industries are defense and security, automotive, aerospace and rail."
No mention of percussion caps. I think I'll call both Remington and CCI on the telephone to see how things are going.

Point of information: There is no longer any "Chechoslovakia" country as of 1993. That former country split into the Czech Republic and Slovakia as two independent countries at that time. The company CZ is in the Czech Republic. I am not, however, aware of the details of the corporate charter or affiliation of 'CSG' or its organizational structure. Corporate mergers, reorganizations and divestitures mess up everything. Maybe someone could elaborate... or not...

 

[Steve Wagner]

Nice start.

What, wait, did 100 lawyers get run over ? Oh, you mean his cap collection.
zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz SW

 

[kyron4]

Point of information: There is no longer any "Chechoslovakia" country as of 1993. That former country split into the Czech Republic and Slovakia as two independent countries at that time. The company CZ is in the Czech Republic. I am not, however, aware of the details of the corporate charter or affiliation of 'CSG' or its organizational structure. Corporate mergers, reorganizations and divestitures mess up everything. Maybe someone could elaborate... or not...

Just last year they changed the everyday name to Czechia, the official name is still Czech Republic, but for business, sports, etc. purposes it will be referred to as Czechia. Much like the Republic of France is referred to as France and so on.

I have a old friend that lives there and if you want to tick off a Czech or a Slovak; just refer to them as Czechoslovakian. They are two separate nation of two separate peoples. Both are good people .

 

[Coinneach]

Just last year they changed the everyday name to Czechia, the official name is still Czech Republic, but for business, sports, etc. purposes it will be referred to as Czechia. Much like the Republic of France is referred to as France and so on.

I have a old friend that lives there and if you want to tick off a Czech or a Slovak; just refer to them as Czechoslovakian. They are two separate nation of two separate peoples. Both are good people .

no mention of Chinese Czechers though......

 

[Sam squanch]

We all mess with the scalpers at local gun shows. My favorite is looking at a certain gun he has for sale , comparing the serial number to a number I have on a paper, saying nothing, and walking off. My friend wears a suit and asks questions about percussion caps. This one fellow deserves it, as he had runs of caps, opened tins, priced at $50 each!!

 

[dpasek]

Just last year they changed the everyday name to Czechia, the official name is still Czech Republic, but for business, sports, etc. purposes it will be referred to as Czechia. Much like the Republic of France is referred to as France and so on.

I have a old friend that lives there and if you want to tick off a Czech or a Slovak; just refer to them as Czechoslovakian. They are two separate nation of two separate peoples. Both are good people .

My ancestry is Czech. My grandfather and two great uncles were born there (Southern Bohemia).

 

[stikshooter]

I the option of making ones own caps is the way forward, finding the best cap making kit is my challenge any advice/guidance is welcome.

Dream on ! I got one sits on the shelf , as long as there's hope of finding store bought they stay there ! As satisfying as watching water boil !/Ed

 

[Coinneach]

Dream on ! I got one sits on the shelf , as long as there's hope of finding store bought they stay there ! As satisfying as watching water boil !/Ed

You dont get invited many social gatherings do you ?
BTW neither do I.....thankfully.

 

[dpasek]

I have to admit that I'm a collector and hoarder myself, as my Ex wife (a Psychiatrist of all things) said "geez you've got a lot of stuff darleeeng"

Maybe its an embedded part of our DNA and a primeval urge thing, makes sense to me considering as a baby boomer I was raised by great depression survivors who themselves were raised by well experienced Hard Times generations before them.

I'll upvote that too.
My mother almost always fixed her own stuff. She kept fixing her lawnmower until a neighbor finally convinced her that it was too worn out to be worth fixing any more. Only then did she buy a new one with features that made it easier for her to use. There was some old depression era saying that went something like "take care of it, fix it up, or do without..."

 

[Mina]

I probably have a hundred flints lying around that I’ve made from rocks found here on the farm. Every time I go out to feed the critters and see a good rock, I’ll pick it up and put it in a bucket for later. Does this make me a hoarder?

You are at least a rock hound who feed critters rather than eat them.

 

[Coinneach]

We all mess with the scalpers at local gun shows. My favorite is looking at a certain gun he has for sale , comparing the serial number to a number I have on a paper, saying nothing, and walking off. My friend wears a suit and asks questions about percussion caps. This one fellow deserves it, as he had runs of caps, opened tins, priced at $50 each!!

I enjoy asking them if I can count how many Caps are in the round container, then spilling them all over the scalpers show table "doesnt matter I'll shop elswhere" as I walk off.

 

[dpasek]

I the option of making ones own caps is the way forward, finding the best cap making kit is my challenge any advice/guidance is welcome.

I'm not too fond of the offerings that I am seeing for cap forming dies. I may have to see about designing something more suitable. I have found enough info on specifications and dimensions to work from. There is adequate info for primer comp.

 

[flconch53]

Being new to muzzleloading, I haven't had years when things where plentiful to accumulate a reserve of supplies, haven't been able to find #11 caps anywhere online, cleaned out a local gunshop who had enough to last me a couple months,

Academy, Bass Pro Shops, Dick's, the other 20+ gunshops in town had Nada! I bought 2 nipples to convert my T/C Hawken to use Musket caps, and have even considered buying a flintlock, in the event I run out completely before I can find anymore.

Wanted to ask if a nipple could be modified to use a standard rifle or shotgun primer?

Stop looking in big box stores and look in muzzleloading supply specialty outlets. Powder Valley is one. There are caps out there but once hunting season is over the big box stores don't care. I bought 2000 caps last week from a vendor at a muzzleloading shoot.

 

[Hawk54]

My ancestry is Czech. My grandfather and two great uncles were born there (Southern Bohemia).

My wife's fathers family are all Czech. Older ones spoke it.

 

[Mina]

Stop looking in big box stores and look in muzzleloading supply specialty outlets. Powder Valley is one. There are caps out there but once hunting season is over the big box stores don't care. I bought 2000 caps last week from a vendor at a muzzleloading shoot.

I have a percussion lock to install, but just ordered a same size flintlock to use instead. Reasons? Shortages of caps and the option of switching back to cap lock if a cap making kit magically appears.