25 yard sight in =50/75yard?

[petew]

Just wondering what to expect at 50 and 75 yds if I sight in at the easy to see 25 yards with 50/ 54 cal's and stiff hunting loads. Should I be dead on at 25 or high or low at 25?
I know the obvious answer is shoot and see for myself, and that will happen, I am just looking for a good starting 25 yard +- so it won't take all day at the range waiting for target/bench changes.

 

[Rifleman1776]

Just wondering what to expect at 50 and 75 yds if I sight in at the easy to see 25 yards with 50/ 54 cal's and stiff hunting loads. Should I be dead on at 25 or high or low at 25?
I know the obvious answer is shoot and see for myself, and that will happen, I am just looking for a good starting 25 yard +- so it won't take all day at the range waiting for target/bench changes.

In my experience, 25 yards for sighting in will tell you almost nothing about your gun, loads, you, etc.
You need the 50 yard range for real sighting and testing. Sighted at 50 your ball with (theoretically) still be rising at 25 yards but in practice the amount if negligible. There are no 25 yard bench rest matches (that I know of) so you will never see any difference offhand at targets or animules.

 

[rafterob]

I sight in at 25 yards. Before setting the sights I find the load that groups best at the highest POI.I then set the sights. Every rifle will be unique.One of my rifles will shoot center at 25 and 50 yards and then have a 6" drop at 100. My other rifle will shoot flat all the way out to 100 yards. SO to really answer your question,yes you need to take a lot of time to get to know where your rifle shoots at each distance.

 

[Stumpkiller]

I sight in for an 85 yard zero. That's about 1-1/2" high at 50 yards, about the same or a tad more low at 100 yards, and about 1/2" high at 25 yards.

Your results will be effected by how tall your front sight is above the bore line and your muzzle velocity.

 

[Sperit de bois]

Ref: Sam Fadala's book, "The Complete Black Powder Handbook" page 59,ISBN 0-695-81311-0, Sam sight in at 12 1/2 yards, you read it correctly ,he does say 13 yards is close enough.Sighting in at that range makes it easier to get on target,make corrections.Sam goes on the write that will put you in the bulleseye and at 50 yds a bit high, a touch high at 75 yards and a shade low at 100 yards.Sam writes this is with a "safe and sane' load???Also my experiance,, put a WHITE bulleseye up,,,black sights show up so much better on a white background and you can see the holes much easier with bino's/spotting scope,, saves you the walk to and from the target..
Dont know about his referances,BIT,TOUCH,SHADE but I have used this in the past,,,puts me on paper then just fine tuning is whats left,,,every rifle is different.

 

[petew]

Perfect. Thanks Stumpkiller,Now I have a starting point to work from.

 

[Rifleman1776]

Sam Fadala is a commercial gun writer. Much of what he has said over the years about muzzle loaders and black powder is nonsense.

 

[BrownBear]

Your results will be effected by how tall your front sight is above the bore line and your muzzle velocity.

Amen.

 

[preston cook]

:idunno: and why is that sir?

 

[Dphar]

Sight it 1.25" high at 25 then test at 100.
This also depends on the height of the sights. This is assuming lower sights not high modern ML sights and typical barrel dimensions.
The higher the sights the lower the ball should be at 25.
Personally I would skip 25 yards aside from getting a new rifle on the paper.
Shoot it at 50 and make it 2 1/2" high there. This will put the zero at 100-110 with most 50-54 loads of 1800 fps+. This will give a "point blank" for deer of 110-130 yards in most cases.
This table is fairly close I think. But ballistics programs are a manure shoot with the PRB being made for modern projectiles and velocities the ofter are a little "off" at BP velocities.

Its for sights .75" above bore center.

Dan

 

[Rafsob]

Sam Fadala is a commercial gun writer. Much of what he has said over the years about muzzle loaders and black powder is nonsense.

So an accomplished writer should not be taken seriously, but an unknown poster on the internet is the man to go to???

Just because a guy is a pro doesn't make him a hack and full of warm spit!

 

[don hepler]

Almost all ranges are set up for 25,50,100,200 or at least that's the way the private and public ranges are around here. I find that fine for my centerfire guns(handguns and rifles) however, I felt like 25 was just too close and I don't see all that well at 50, and 100 yards is out of the question for me. I hunt in thick cover, and 40-50, would be my limit. So, I made my own portable target stand and shoot at 40 yards. I know 10 yards don't sound like much, but my old eyes know the difference. I shoot good at that range, and it just seems to give me a little more confidence. I wouldn,t hesitate to take a shot on a deer, at 50 yards, because I use a 6 o'clock hold on my targets, and all I would need at 50 is hold dead on.

I think each person has to establish the yardage they are comfortable with, and know where it's going to hit. I don't practice at longer yardages than I am capable of taking a good shot, and I sometimes have to let the big ones walk.

Just something you might want to try.

 

[Sperit de bois]

Iam with you!!! I have used it and it works.I even use a laser bore sighter to rough set the sights.
Bottom line; Do what ever makes you giggle.
OH Sam's education!!!!!
1.Degrees B.S, Northern Arizona University English/Zoology.
2.Masters University of Alaska English 3.Doctorate in writting and research University of Arizona.
in his spare time he has chronographed and tested hundreds of black powder loads and firearms and written about it..
Here's a thought: try the 12 1/2 yard sight in,,,if it works Sam is correct if not,
Then Sam is just a writter with no real credit to his rambling,writting and is a blow hard,,well someone gets the title and credit.
See you up the trail,,and if your in the lead dont spit.

 

[Rifleman1776]

:idunno: and why is that sir?

I have read some of his articles in the past. I have found errors and have seen postings on forum pointing out his errors.

 

[Rifleman1776]

Sam Fadala is a commercial gun writer. Much of what he has said over the years about muzzle loaders and black powder is nonsense.

So an accomplished writer should not be taken seriously, but an unknown poster on the internet is the man to go to???

Just because a guy is a pro doesn't make him a hack and full of warm spit!

Yep. You said it. I have been a professional writer since 1953. I could self-inform (that is something short of researching) myself on almost any subject in a short period of time and write an article about it. Writing it and getting published does not establish expertness. And FWIW, I have been published in gun magazines, ml and modern.
Believe who and what you wish. Fadala is a successful writer. That doesn't make him expert.
BTW, haven't we gone a bit ff ?

 

[Dphar]

Sam Fadala is a commercial gun writer. Much of what he has said over the years about muzzle loaders and black powder is nonsense.

So an accomplished writer should not be taken seriously, but an unknown poster on the internet is the man to go to???

Just because a guy is a pro doesn't make him a hack and full of warm spit!

S. Fadala came up with some vary interesting stuff and he has a lot of experience.
But taking him as gospel on everything would be a mistake.
The problem arises when people can't tell the interesting stuff from things that are written just to get a paycheck.
Like the wasp nest stuff, there is some interesting stuff there. But going hunting for wasp nests? I have better things to do.
A dry patch over the powder does the same thing for me if its needed. But I have never done hi-speed photography of the muzzle when they were shot. I just know with certain patch lubes it eliminates patch blowing in one of my rifles and improves accuracy.

Dan

 

[garandman]

As a reference, my M1862 Springfield will shoot 58 caliber 530 gr Minies with 60gr Goex dead on (PoA = PoI) at 50 yards, and 10" low at 100 yards.

 

[Dphar]

I might add that sighting in so the ball is a little low at 100 is a total waste of time as the table I posted above indicates. The ball needs to be at least "on" at 100 and preferably a little high so as to be on at 110-130 to give the best possible point blank for game the size of Antelope or larger.
If shooting from a tree stand in the east where the shots are short then a 50 yard zero is OK I guess but has no advantage over a 110 zero unless shooting squirrels.
Since I hunt a wide range of terrains I sight for 100+. While its less important in the age of laser range finders its still the best option for rifle used for my type of hunting. Simply because to about 120 yards or a little more I need not adjust my hold on the animal. Past 120 I would want a good rest and no wind.
Last deer I killed was 105 yards offhand. Used the same hold as for the ones I shot in the creek bottom at 40 or so.
Nor is it possible to sight a fixed sight ML to be in the X ring of a target from 25 to 100 yards if shooting competition. So 1- 1.5 high at 25, 3" or a little less high at 50 and 1" high at 100 is actually a pretty good option even for this. Its the best compromise.
Dan

 

[George]

Ref: Sam Fadala's book, "The Complete Black Powder Handbook" page 59,ISBN 0-695-81311-0, Sam sight in at 12 1/2 yards, you read it correctly ,he does say 13 yards is close enough.

Fadala's right, and he recommends that because every ball crosses the line of sight close to the muzzle, and 12-13 yards is close to the average distance at which that happens. Since line of sight and bullet path coincide at that short range, it's a handy shortcut when sighting in a new gun. Doing your first sight-in at that range will put you on paper at further ranges, and you can refine the sighting from there. You should never attempt to do final sighting in at 12 yards, that's not the idea behind it.

It always surprises me how few people understand the basic trajectory of the guns we shoot.

Spence

 

[Strawstalker/NM]

I agree with Spence. You will save a lot of time, lead & powder if you: (1) Start out at 13 yds and get the rifle sights set to hit center - left to right. (2) Move your target out to 50 yds and, once more, make any minor left-right adjustments. (3) At 50 yds, I work on my loads - ball, patch, powder & lube. (4) I then file/adjust my sights so that my POI at 50 yds is 1" above my POA. (5) With everything squared away at 50yds I then shoot 5 round groups at 20, 30, 40, 50, 60, 70,80, 90 & 100 yds and record the POI at all of those distances. (6)I then compile a simple reference chart. Thus I can adjust my POA high or low at various trail walk distances. This system has worked well for me - your milage may vary. Strawstalker/Co.