250 year old patches?

[WV_Hillbilly]

That subject line is NOT an April Fools joke, though I'm sure I could have come up with something.

The patch thread alignment topic got some of the less-used "gears turning" in my head. I know I've thought about this before, but never seemed to remember to bring it up for discussion.

Has anyone else thought about the type of patching material that may have been commonly used in the mid to late 18th century? Does anyone (other than me) think that the older cloth might have produced significantly different results than the modern produced materials that we use today?

How about patching material that we ourselves have had laying around for years... should it be thrown away and "new" material (or pre-cut) patches be bought and used instead? Does it matter? or should we just go ahead and ignore that possible variable.

Just something to think about... I would like to read some of your comments, ideas, and thoughts on this subject though...

Regards, and shoot safely!
WV_Hillbilly

 

There are several inventories where linen cloth is listed along with powder and lead rather than with normal yard goods. It is usually not enough for making any garmet and is obviously for use as patching.

Boone was said to prefer 600 thread count linen as patching material.

 

[Swampman]

In the Middle Ground, buckskin was commonly used. It works fine if you use a much smaller ball like they did in the 18th c.

 

[roundball]

"...600 thread count..."

Do you mean as in 600 threads per inch?

 

[Java Man]

I tried buckskin yesterday, out of my .62 Fowler. Used .570 rb's and whatever thickness skin. Some loaded fairly tight, some more easily.

I did not shoot at paper, but eggs laying out in a field on very soft ground. I was hitting or coming very close to eggs from 30-50 yds. Even used two of my patches over, and you could not tell they were used at all (black leather).

I would say that my accuracy was much better than when I used .595rb's and ticking. Now I need to try the .570"/buckskin combo on paper and what is really happening. Lube used was Birddog6 Patch Grease.

Java Man

 

[Swampman]

Sounds great. I wish more people would try traditional methods. They breath new life into the hobby.

 

[Java Man]

Mark,

I just tried it out on the smoothbore. I'm going to use whatever is most accurate. In my rifles that will include as big a ball as I can get down the barrel with my short starter. I'm a target shooter first, and hunter second. But will stay with as many traditional methods that meet my goals. All finters of course, excpt my TC Patriot pistol.

 

[TANSTAAFL]

Inconsistent thickness and all, thin leather was a viable option for patching balls. I doubt lads of the era gave much thought to thread count or orientation, their guns were tools, they adapted what was at hand to accomplish the task.

 

[Swampman]

I haven't tried it, but I think the chamios (goat skins)that they sell for drying your car might make good patching. It seems more consistent in thickness. I like hemp drill cloth really well. It's tough as nails.

 

[Java Man]

I make longbows and recurves as a side hobby/bus, and have a lot of scaps off deer hides that I can't use. Should provide plenty of patches for my smoothbore.

For now, I'll stick with ticking for my rifles.

 

[Swampman]

I made an Osage bow with Brad Smith a few years ago. Horn tips #55@28".

 

[Brawdhead]

There are several inventories where linen cloth is listed along with powder and lead rather than with normal yard goods. It is usually not enough for making any garmet and is obviously for use as patching.

I wonder whether that was hemp linen or flax linen.

Although nowadays we usually use the term "linen" only in reference to fabric made from flax (well, also as a general term for bedclothes, even if the fabric it's made from is actually cotton percale), the term hasn't always been so specific. It wasn't too long ago that "linen" referred to *any* fabric made from a line fiber (such as flax, hemp, or nettle).

As I understand it, for many times and places throughout history (I wish I knew which ones, but textile archeaology hasn't made it to the top of my interests list yet), "linen" was assumed to be hemp linen. When linen cloth was made from something other than hemp, they would sometimes specify such (e.g., "flax linen" or "nettlecloth linen"). (Kinda like "tea", I suppose. Used by itself in the South, it means iced tea, and one would have to specify "hot tea" for the other version. In the north, "tea" is hot, and "iced tea" would have to be specified as such.)

Boone was said to prefer 600 thread count linen as patching material.

Dang, that would make for some pretty high-quality bedding by today's standards (not top end, but pretty high).

The very fine threads used for a 600-count weave yield a very thin (but strong) cloth...much thinner, I expect, than one could find with cotton shirting or pillow ticking.

I wonder then, if maybe his preference for the linen over other fabrics was perhaps simply due to the patch thickness available rather than to some other physical difference of the fiber that might have also affected performance.

Dan in da U.P.

 

"...600 thread count..."

Do you mean as in 600 threads per inch?

That's what I read RB. I cannot imagine 600/inch thread count fabric being available on the frontier, and there is so much myth about Boone floating around. I generally take anything I read about Boone with a grain of salt.

 

[faw3]

Ive read about leather in more than a few books and covering a long time span from pre Hawken days to hunters in Africa, one thing I never see is.. did they beat some to soften it up or?? it would seem to stiff to load anything but a smooth bore of bigger cal? :hmm: :hmm: Fred :hatsoff:

 

[Ridge]

Are you still making indian bows JavaMan? I used to see your add in Backwoodsman and always wanted to order one.

 

[CoyoteJoe]

Sounds great. I wish more people would try traditional methods. They breath new life into the hobby.

I truly understand your feelings. As I become more of a ronduvooer I want to be more and more primitive.
But than I have to compete with CoyoteJoe and I know fer sure he ain't usin' buckskin around his balls, Lead balls that is :rotf:
When I go woods walkin' I try to truly get into "primitive"
Only using natural lubes fer my gun an such.

Actually I did use buckskin patches in a .54 I hunted with many years ago. I was in my Magnum phase at the time and the buckskin stood up to my 140 grains 3f load and gave me 3" groups at 100.
PS, ya doesn't need ta load near that heavy! :haha:

 

[Southgate]

Ned Roberts used Groundhog and Prarie dog hide.He claimed it was excelent for patching.I like regular ol' un-bleached muslin at .99 per yard.

Eddie :bow:

 

[Swampman]

I like 10oz canvas. It never burns or cuts through.

 

[WV_Hillbilly]

There are several inventories where linen cloth is listed along with powder and lead rather than with normal yard goods. It is usually not enough for making any garmet and is obviously for use as patching.

Boone was said to prefer 600 thread count linen as patching material.

I just want to thank those of you who have replied and provided some interesting info which has prompted me to think on this subject further.

Also... while I don't wish to dispute any of the information in these replies, I also find it hard to believe that 600 thread count (you do mean 600 TPI?!?!?) linen was a commonly available item on the frontier in those days.

Anyhow, here is something I got to thinking about.

Do you (or would you) use a piece of goods of unknown origin that might have laid around for 30, 40, or EVEN MORE years. Do you think that it would "lose strength" in the weave, and possible cause conditions that might worsen paper accuracy, or blow a perfect shot on game?

I ask this too, because my Aunt has some cloth (that was typically used for making patchwork quilts). that belonged to my Grandmother, No one has a clue as to the exact age of the cloth, but my Mom and a couple of her sisters estimate one of the cloth pieces to be over 40 years old. I just haven't the spunk to give it a try. The cloth untravels extremely easily. I just think it might be too weak to stand up to firing, and would burn through instantly.

Any thoughts or comments would be greatly appreciated.

Regards, and shoot safely!
WV_Hillbilly

PS There is a substantial amount of this "old cloth" lying about. Has anyone else had or tried to use materials of unknown age or original?
BTW, I'm just a "curious little monkey"

 

[Itegorm]

I wouldn't give a second thought to trying out a bit of old cloth for patching. I tend to use whatever I have on hand to patch (I don't always shoot a patched ball from my smoothbores, sometimes wadded and sometimes even a bare ball, accuracy is adaquite for most of my purposes regardless of method used). In fact the other day I was using patching made from part of an old feather tick that was at least 100 years old (the material was scrap left after I lined a jacket with the material), it shot just fine and held up okay. I don't think that for a bit of informal shooting (even hunting to an extent) the cloth matters much. I had a rifle that consistantly shot very tight groups even though it shredded the patches use upon firing, I have also done odd things like shoot .530 balls wrapped in scrap blanketing for deer in a 20 gauge smoothbore(I lost my bag of round ball while on a hunt and the next closest size anyone had was .530), I even took a deer with the load. Give it a try and see if it works.
Nick (Who is usually satisfied with softball sized groups at 25 yards and 8 saucer sized groups at 50 yards).