2f vs 3f

[Magungo1066]

I was taught that .50 and below, you use 3f, and for any caliber larger than .50, you use 2f. I have seen people, however, use 2f in smaller gauges, and 3f in larger gauges. Is there a huge difference? If I had one or the other could I still get by with it? I shot my .45 pistol the other day at the range with 2f and it performed marvelously.

 

[FishDFly]

No, and let the fight begin.

 

[user 43911]

I'm getting some popcorn


P.S. 3F in everything.

 

[mooman76]

It seems these days more people like 3f because it burns cleaner and often it may shoot better in their particular guns. It really depends on their particular gun and how they load. There use to be the old adage that certain calibers use 2f and pistols and smaller rifles use 3f. We are discovering that there is no one hard fast rule where this is concerned. There are other things we are discovering too like you can only use pure lead and acchieve any kind of accuracy.

 

[Grenadier1758]

The 3fg is more energetic that the 2fg. You would use 10% less volume of the 3fg than a 2fg load. With large bores the 2fg will build up a bit less pressure and there may be a little less perceived recoil with a large 2fg load over the similar 3fg load. Load development will tell you what the choice should be. I know of cases where their 36 caliber rifle performed better with 2fg loads than the 3fg loads. Go figure.

 

[rich pierce]

An outstanding shooter in our club shot one of his .36 rifles with 1F for fun. Results were as usual. Cover the shots with a quarter at 35 yards. I agree finer powders get higher velocity with same volume of charge. I am not sure same is true by weight. But probably is. Note that finer powders have less volume per pound. I use 2F for .50 and above unless I don’t have any left. But for my .69 smoothbore it’s 2F only.

 

[ord sgt]

I have used 44gr FFFg in my .58 calibre Enfield, under a .575 minie. I settled on this load after much experimenting with powder charges. FFg and FFFg with many differnt loads. The 44 grain load works the best in MY rifle. Many tiles have been broken at 100 yards with this load. But, what works for me may not work for you. Every rifle and pistol will let you know what it likes best. You just have to find the sweet charge of powder/ball combination.

 

[Bob McBride]

I find the old adage of .50 and up, use 2f, smaller, use 3f, to be correct 2/3rds of the time for my guns in general and 1/2 of the time in guns of .45-.54. The adage is as good as any place to start, as you’ve got to start somewhere. I use 2f in my .69 ‘42 HF and 1f in my big old EK Bucks 12 bore.

 

[TNGhost]

The difference is in the grain size, and it is not "huge".

In fact depending on the quality and quantities of the ingredients used and methods of manufacture, either one can be more energetic than the other. So in some cases brand may be more pertinent to the issue than granulation.

For instance Swiss 2f may be closer in performance to 3f of some other brands than it would be to 2f of those same brands.

There is no real clear cut answer, other than to try various powders in your firearm and determine which is best for you.

 

[BrokenArrow]

LOL, try out. It depends on the gun and you.

In my .45 Pedersoli Tryon I use 60 grain of Swiss N. 4 behind the 240 grain Maxiball at 50 m. Much better groups and less recoil than with the 55 grain Swiss No. 2. I may use Swiss No 3 with 60 grain to but Groups are not as good.

In the Ardesa Flint Lock Rifle, Pennsylvania Carbine, .45 and short barreld, I use 40 grain of Swiss Nr.1. 50 m you aim 12 cm Deep and at 100 m 12 cm high to hit the Center of the target.

In the flint lock, a Virgina Rifle in .45, Long Barrel, I use 30 grain of Swiss No. 4. The No. 1 does not work.

Pistol up to .45 I may be shot with Swiss No.2 or No.1 though I use only No. 1 due to limited storing regulations about quantities in Germany. With No 1 you need less powder but you have to test the amount of reducement. With the .31 Pedersoli 8 grain of No1 and 10 grain of No.2.

.44 Revolver I take 15 grain no. 1 else 18 grain No. 2. But you may reduce down to 10 grain though I don't like it. 13.5 grain No 1 works too. Swiss No. 4 can be used but you may need 20 grain or more.

.69 Charleville, I take 80 grain Swiss No. 4 you may take 90 grain Wasa No. 3 and I know of guys who take 100 grain of Swiss No.1.

I due competiton Shooting, that is making holes in paper at 25 or 50 meter.

 

[brewer12345]

The fiddling and experimentation is part of the fun. Try it and see what works, just make sure to write your successes down. I currently fool with Grafs 3F, OE 2 and 1.5F, and Black MZ. I am not crazy about the rest of the subs on the market, so when the black MZ is gone (out of production so I have what I have) I will just be using real black.

 

[SDSmlf]

If it works you are good to go. Was using ffff in my revolvers 40 years ago before I learned the dangers of using it from the internet...... never had an issue. I got the ffff load data from Lyman Black Powder Handbook. Would still use it, but have settled on fff Swiss for most everything, unless for some reason it doesn’t work in a particular gun. One less thing to muck up.

 

[Grenadier1758]

For information to best understand @BrokenArrow we need the size chart for Swiss powder:
From the Scheutzen/ Swiss web site:
Note the 1.5G is European labeled as No. 4
The 2fg is labeled as No. 3
The 3fg is labeled as No. 2
The 4fg is labeled as No.1

Type	Granulation	Use
1Fg 1.5Fg 2Fg 3Fg 4Fg 0B	1.2-1.6 mm 0.85-1.2 mm 0.65-1.2 mm 0.5- 0.8 mm 0.25- 0.5 mm 0.19- 0.23 mm	Cannons, shotguns, and muskets .45 caliber rifles and greater .45 caliber rifles and greater .45 caliber rifles and smaller, pistols Flintlock priming powder only Flintlock priming powder only

 

[BrokenArrow]

As to the Pedersoli Tryon,

I know six of that Muzzleoader for target shooting which may serve as an indicator what you can experience.

Four of that Tryon's are shot with the 240 grain .452 Maxiball pure lead (and some tin)
35 grain of Swiss No. 2 or 3Fg
40 grain of Swiss No. 2 or 3Fg
45 grain of Swiss No. 2 or 3Fg
mine, 55 grain of Swiss No 2 or 2Fg, 60 grain of Swiss No. 3 or 2Fg prefered 60grain of Swiss No. 4 or 1.5Fg

Two shot with .445 round ball and patch
20 grain of Swiss No. 2 or 3Fg
25 grain of Swiss No. 2 or 3Fg

The Barrel length varies rifle to rifle. My Barrel is the shortest, About 1" Shorter than the longest.

 

[Britsmoothy]

I use 4f in my smoothbores. Works great. In fact I would if the choice in the store was only 1f or 4f take the 4f.

 

[hanshi]

Hmmm...Well, yes and no. I basically use Goex 3F in everything regardless of caliber. I just prefer to keep it simple by using one grade of powder. I do always keep a little bit of 2F around that works in a few specific loads that I seldom use. If it works, don't second guess it.

 

[tc45dave]

I am using Olde Eynsford 3F in my .50 Hawken right now. Then I'm going to try different charges of O.E. 2F. Want to see if there is any difference in accuracy.

 

[Bledfor Days]

I mix 2F and 3F together in equal parts. It works for me.

 

[Bob McBride]

I mix 2F and 3F together in equal parts. It works for me.

That’s not a bad idea. Swiss does that with their ‘Reenactor Powder’. I’ve got a dozen cans of it I bought at an estate sale. Works great. Be sure to mix it good or the 3f will settle and your point of impact could shift as you get to the bottom of your horn...

 

[Greenjoytj]

Good luck keeping the two different granulations well mixed, subtle separation would be constantly on going with any vibration. Just like a box of cold cereal the finer particles move to the bottom of the box.