2nd Generation Colt Navy

[griffiga]

I have a chance to buy a 2nd Generation Colt Navy .36. Just wondering how much I should offer him. I've attached a couple photos. Thanks

 

[poker]

That depends, has it been used much? Are the box, and any accesories with it?
Id guess values range from 4-800

 

[BallBoy]

You need another thing to use up your black powder like I do. lol
Derek

 

[Whitworth]

I paid $500 shipped for a nicely used one last year, likely carried by an re-enactor for years. It presents as it's self well as nicely preserved original which is what I wanted, a shooter. YMMV

 

[Cpt Flint]

Buy the best and cry once. What ever it takes.
I never price someone else’s merchandise. You need a starting place. Get him to price it and go from there.

 

[DOUBLEDEUCE 1]

If it’s in well cared for shape, start at $275.00. If it comes in it’s original box with the papers, that’s a plus. You can’t shoot the box, but it’s still nice to have.

Several months ago, I ‘stole’ two Second Generation Colts, complete with original boxes and paperwork, unfired, pristine. I paid about $15.00 more than the original price for each revolver.

You can look to see what a new Uberti or Pieta go for. That might give you some thought.

 

[kh54]

I have been perusing gunbroker, gunsinternational, and other online sources for 2nd gen revolvers for a couple of years. As y’all know prices have been going up. Most asking prices for revolvers without boxes, accessories, etc. (what I can usually afford) were in the $500 range just two years ago. Now asking prices usually start at $700 or so. I just saw a nice one in its original 2nd gen case and with original 2nd gen accessories for $1295. Two years ago it might have been closer to $800. I’m glad I got mine when I did.

 

[griffiga]

I have been perusing gunbroker, gunsinternational, and other online sources for 2nd gen revolvers for a couple of years. As y’all know prices have been going up. Most asking prices for revolvers without boxes, accessories, etc. (what I can usually afford) were in the $500 range just two years ago. Now asking prices usually start at $700 or so. I just saw a nice one in its original 2nd gen case and with original 2nd gen accessories for $1295. Two years ago it might have been closer to $800. I’m glad I got mine when I did.

The guy advertised it at $600 just for the pistol, but I thought I'd start at $400-450.

 

[kh54]

Even 600 is not a bad price given today's market, but tell us how you do!

 

[Whughett]

And the real funny part of the scenario is Colt didn’t really manufacture them. Some one will surely explain better but the 2nds parts were made in Italy and shipped to Colt for completing. Collectors are driving up the cost for us shooters. The 3rds are another story.

 

[user 51067]

And the real funny part of the scenario is Colt didn’t really manufacture them. Some one will surely explain better but the 2nds parts were made in Italy and shipped to Colt for completing. Collectors are driving up the cost for us shooters. The 3rds are another story.

Parts for these were made "in the white" and shipped to the US for final assembly under the guise of Colt. Each assembler had 28 minutes to fit and make functional a "completed in the white revolver" that would then be blued and color case hardened. Anything over the said 28 minute mark was scrapped into piles of parts. I knew the gentleman who was the "Supervisor" of the gunsmiths (who were brought over from Italy). One of those gunsmiths bought the piles of scrapped parts and later spent the time to make completed pistols (at a discount, with his own serial numbers). Those "parts guns" were generally better made than the 28 minute "specials" in both form and function-AND they had a "story." That particular gentleman went on to become the vice president of a well-known "exotic" shotgun manufacturer. The Supervisor went on to own a specialty muzzleloading shop until his death a couple of years ago. HIS name was Charlie Stone and he was the proprietor of the Neshanic Depot. BTW, parts for the ORIGINAL Colts were made in the white in Europe and shipped to the US for final assembly (much like the second generation ones were).

 

[45D]

28 mins. huh . . . that would be a good explanation for why they basically suck mechanically!!! Lol!

 

[griffiga]

Good information guys, I may low ball him and then pass if he says no.

 

[Bad Karma]

And the real funny part of the scenario is Colt didn’t really manufacture them. Some one will surely explain better but the 2nds parts were made in Italy and shipped to Colt for completing. Collectors are driving up the cost for us shooters. The 3rds are another story.

I wish I had a dollar for every time I’ve heard this one. The parts for the 2nd generation guns were forged in Italian factories, shipped to America, then machined and finished here. This is the truth of it and it’s why Colt collectors consider the second generation guns to be genuine Colt revolvers.
I don’t have the time nor inclination to correct all of the bs spouted about the second gen. Colts (I do have several books by well regarded scholars detailing the story of how they came to be... but any who are interested can find them too.) Or, they can continue to spout conjecture and half truths. Here’s a quote from Mike Venturino on the subject...

”There are numerous rumors about the heritage of these 2nd Generation Colt percussion handguns. This is the straight scoop. Starting in the 1970s and ending in 1982, raw parts were imported from Italy. Then they were given final machining, fitting, polishing with blue and color case hardening, all done by the now defunct Iver Johnson Company, then located in Arkansas. Only the marketing was done by Colt. Regardless, they are revolvers of superb quality, albeit quality of final finishing with some fell off a bit toward the end of production.”

No mention of midnight armadas bearing Italian gunsmiths nor 28 minute assemblies... Iver Johnson had plenty of skilled smiths right there in Arkansas. I have a couple of the Iver Johnson revolvers. Small .32 and .38’s and they’re very well fitted and finished as are the 2nd generation Colts I have owned. (Short arbors and all Mike...)

Dennis Adler wrote, “According to the Blue Book of Gun Values, "Although parts for the Signature Series were cast in Italy, they were fully assembled and hand-finished in the United States using the proprietary Colt formulas for bluing and color-casehardening." The Italian origin of the raw parts for these revolvers is no doubt the cause of some disagreement on their authenticity, but the Blue Book further states, "Colt Blackpowder Arms Company Signature Series revolvers are regarded as authentic Colt pistols."

Colt collectors seem to like them, I don’t buy anything to gather dust so they all get shot or sent down the road.

If I was interested in his Navy I would offer a slightly low price and gauge his reaction. No sense insulting him for no reason.

 

[Whughett]

I wish I had a dollar for every time I’ve heard this one. The parts for the 2nd generation guns were forged in Italian factories, shipped to America, then machined and finished here. This is the truth of it and it’s why Colt collectors consider the second generation guns to be genuine Colt revolvers.
I don’t have the time nor inclination to correct all of the bs spouted about the second gen. Colts (I do have several books by well regarded scholars detailing the story of how they came to be... but any who are interested can find them too.) Or, they can continue to spout conjecture and half truths. Here’s a quote from Mike Venturino on the subject...

”There are numerous rumors about the heritage of these 2nd Generation Colt percussion handguns. This is the straight scoop. Starting in the 1970s and ending in 1982, raw parts were imported from Italy. Then they were given final machining, fitting, polishing with blue and color case hardening, all done by the now defunct Iver Johnson Company, then located in Arkansas. Only the marketing was done by Colt. Regardless, they are revolvers of superb quality, albeit quality of final finishing with some fell off a bit toward the end of production.”

No mention of midnight armadas bearing Italian gunsmiths nor 28 minute assemblies... Iver Johnson had plenty of skilled smiths right there in Arkansas. I have a couple of the Iver Johnson revolvers. Small .32 and .38’s and they’re very well fitted and finished as are the 2nd generation Colts I have owned. (Short arbors and all Mike...)

Dennis Adler wrote, “According to the Blue Book of Gun Values, "Although parts for the Signature Series were cast in Italy, they were fully assembled and hand-finished in the United States using the proprietary Colt formulas for bluing and color-casehardening." The Italian origin of the raw parts for these revolvers is no doubt the cause of some disagreement on their authenticity, but the Blue Book further states, "Colt Blackpowder Arms Company Signature Series revolvers are regarded as authentic Colt pistols."

Colt collectors seem to like them, I don’t buy anything to gather dust so they all get shot or sent down the road.

If I was interested in his Navy I would offer a slightly low price and gauge his reaction. No sense insulting him for no reason.

None the less. Manufactured abroad assembled in America or made in America from foreign parts. Semantics. They aren’t Colts they only carry the Colt name.

 

[user 51067]

I stand firmly by my assertions, knowing PERSONALLY the individuals involved by the process. That is by no means intended to demean the quality of the items produced-only an insight as to the actual facts as related to me by the person or persons actually involved in the process. The process itself was much like the ORIGINAL Colt process and procurement, and thus similar to the first generation creations (and by many) considered to be a "continuation" of the originals and not reproductions. The THIRD generation-not so much.

 

[45D]

Ha! I hear ya Woodnbow! Well, the 2nd gens will letter . . . so they got that going for um . . . but dang!! I spend 28 mins or more just moding a bolt!!!

Mike

 

[Steel Guitar]

From what I understand, yes Iver Johnson put them together. The 2nd gens used Uberti parts and the 3rd gen used San Marco. I seen alot of 3rd gens used in cowboy action shooting which I did for over 20 years and these 3rd gens looked good but all had to have functioning problems fixed by a good gunsmith. The 2nd gens, (I had 5, now 3) all function perfectly and are a joy to shoot and don't impact real high on the target like the others.
The real question is, are you willing to spend the big money to buy a 2nd gen that you will love for the rest of your life !!

 

[SPQR70AD]

If it’s in well cared for shape, start at $275.00. If it comes in it’s original box with the papers, that’s a plus. You can’t shoot the box, but it’s still nice to have.

Several months ago, I ‘stole’ two Second Generation Colts, complete with original boxes and paperwork, unfired, pristine. I paid about $15.00 more than the original price for each revolver.

You can look to see what a new Uberti or Pieta go for. That might give you some thought.

you got ripped real bad. I paid 79 cents for 3 new colts at a garage sale

 

[Bad Karma]

Ha! I hear ya Woodnbow! Well, the 2nd gens will letter . . . so they got that going for um . . . but dang!! I spend 28 mins or more just moding a bolt!!!

Mike

I think the 3rd generation letter too. I’ve never owned one, don’t really care about the letter. The second gen Colts I’ve owned, (5 or 6 now?) have been good shooters except one 1861 Navy, a previous owner had installed a new mainspring from an Uberti SAA and it was very stout. @TheOutlawKid replaced the spring, cleaned it up internally and sent it back. It’s a fun little gun now.
Somehow I suspect the 28 minutes. A really skilled smith would take at least 45… if the second gen guns I’ve shot were assembled and running in 28 minutes those smiths were talented on some levels you and I haven’t even dreamed about.
As the Spaniard said, “I don’t espose you can espeed things up?!”