2nd Range Trip , much better !

[Zonie]

White lightning make a touch hole insert thats drop in for the thompson center. I don't think they make one for the lyman.

...

Your comment got my curiosity up so I did some digging.

Jim Chambers company which makes the White Lightning vent liner has always used a special thread pitch on their liners.

It has 32 threads per inch so the choices available are 1/4-32, 5/16-32 and 3/8-32.

The Thompson Center guns use a 1/4-28 pitch thread.

According to everything I can find, Chambers has not added a 28 thread pitch liner to the White Lightning series of vent liners so, the only way to install one of his liners would be to drill out the existing vent hole threads to the next larger size and then to thread it with a 5/16-32 tap.

The White Lightning vent liner has a hollowed out area on the side towards the bore.
This hollowed out area removes most of the length of the vent hole leaving about 1/16" of wall thru which the actual vent hole is drilled.

There are several other companies that make vent liners with hollowed out areas similar to the White Lightning liner that offer the standard fine pitch threads like 1/4-28.

These would fit the Thompson Center guns but they are not the real White Lightning liners.

The bottom line is, no, there are no real White Lightning vent liners available that will directly fit into a Thompson Center or Lyman flintlock gun without modifying the gun.

 

[Road_Clam]

Thank you MSW.

A lt of people say they are using my System but are actually only using part of it..
Some are just using the between shot wipe. Others are using the Dry Patch formulae.
Both of these add consistency to the loading practice which is good. If you ask them what patch thickness they are using and they give you a thickness of ..015 or .018 they are only using the least part of my System.

There seems to be a reluctance to take advantage of the big discovery I stumbled across some 35 years ago..

I guess those who just fiddle with the various thickness of patches till they get increasingly smaller groups plus those bits of peripheral suggestions all together get enough combined help to to send me happy camper message.
Thisis pleasing to me . What really pleases mere the reports from folks who go all the way and get amazingly tight groups
indicating something I would call precision..

PeopleI coached at the range switched to muzzle loaders "because they were more accurate" than their modern rifles.

Dutch

Hi Dutch, I too tried to PM you a few days ago, this is "Rich K. from New Hampshire". Been busy reading up on your precision Muzzleloading document, and I must say some hugely beneficial information !

 

[Dr5x]

Rich, I didn't get your Post Mortem, I don't thnk you should quote one of my tedious posts in its entirety they apparently.
cause eyed to close.

I was thinking the other night about some guy who got all the legal work done, spent two days making sure he had everything packed was keeping through the woods wishing he hadn't left the beer on the porch at home when about 45-50 yards away he sees the deer of his dreams. Calmly he braces his rifle agains a tree . Aims a little bit up and to the right the deer'sleftt elbow and fires.

And misses

And instantly he knows how important it would had been if he had learned eliminate flyers..He had really paid any attention to them. Never thought how expensive they might be.

Tsk!

Dutch

 

[Road_Clam]

3rd range trip today, and pleased to say made even more consistiency. Today I shot only one misfire out of 9 shots. The change I tried this trip was switching from FFG to FFFG. An interesting observation is after loading the powder and thumping the buttstock on the ground a few times I observed a small amount of powder in my flash pan. Did not see this occurrence with 2F. So seems that 3F is a better choice given my flash hole design. Today was a great day, temps around 50F, and no wind. Got myself a good 50 yd zero. Had to do some filing to the front sight blade obtain a 50 ft zero , as I maxed out my rear elevation.

 

[Dr5x]

To my dismay, there was a report of one of the recent copies having arrived with the second being the only arrival.
They should open with my scary picture on the front cover.

If any else was spared seeing my photo would they please report to me.

It'salways somethng.

Dutch

 

[azmntman]

I could use the updated version....with photo please :grin:

 

[hanshi]

3rd range trip today, and pleased to say made even more consistiency. Today I shot only one misfire out of 9 shots. The change I tried this trip was switching from FFG to FFFG. An interesting observation is after loading the powder and thumping the buttstock on the ground a few times I observed a small amount of powder in my flash pan. Did not see this occurrence with 2F. So seems that 3F is a better choice given my flash hole design. Today was a great day, temps around 50F, and no wind. Got myself a good 50 yd zero. Had to do some filing to the front sight blade obtain a 50 ft zero , as I maxed out my rear elevation.

:idunno: Photo? All well and good. But surely - not calling you "Shirley", Dutch - you do understand that there are some things that can't be unseen? Help us keep our eyes unsullied. :rotf:

 

[Road_Clam]

To my dismay, there was a report of one of the recent copies having arrived with the second being the only arrival.
They should open with my scary picture on the front cover.

If any else was spared seeing my photo would they please report to me.

It'salways somethng.

Dutch

Stop being so hard on yourself. A very distinguished high master looking gent graces the front page of my Accuracy Ebook :thumbsup:

 

[Dr5x]

Why do you thump your gun butt on the ground?
Are you saying that the thumping caused loose 3fff to come out of your touch hole and that that is a good thing?

We want our touch hole open and clear so the flash of the pan can enter into the breech area. or so I have always been ld to believe.

I have seen two cases where thumping the gun bu on the ground caused the gun but to split off the lower half horizontally even though there wa a good butt plate. a tough repair problem.

Did you get good groups?


That is the whole object of target shooting.

I switched the other way from 3 to off and never went back and my purple shoulder began to fade./

I loved experiments that showed an immediate effect on the target

Dutch

 

[Road_Clam]

Why do you thump your gun butt on the ground?
Are you saying that the thumping caused loose 3fff to come out of your touch hole and that that is a good thing?

We want our touch hole open and clear so the flash of the pan can enter into the breech area. or so I have always been ld to believe.

I have seen two cases where thumping the gun bu on the ground caused the gun but to split off the lower half horizontally even though there wa a good butt plate. a tough repair problem.

Did you get good groups?


That is the whole object of target shooting.

I switched the other way from 3 to off and never went back and my purple shoulder began to fade./

I loved experiments that showed an immediate effect on the target

Dutch

Dutch,
Too many curve balls being thrown at my while i'm in newbie test mode. I can tell you I was encountering many misfires with 2F, and not thumping the stock prior to compressing the charge. 3F with the same exact loading methods worked much better. my 4th range trip was excellent as I went 10 for 11. the single misfire was a dirty / oily flint and frizzen. For now i'm only changing one aspect of my loading in a systematic approach to finding the reliable "fast" lock ignitions. I do plan on switching back to 2F in a final attempt to nail a "2F or 3F" powder conclusion. Thanks for all your input !

 

[MSW]

Road Clam, forgive me if it's a dumb a$$ question, but are you shooting a rifle with a 'patent breech?' (this is a breech where there is a short section that's a bit narrower than the actual bore)

If you are, then thumping the but of the rifle against the ground may be fixing what is often called a 'bridge-' this is where the powder doesn't get all the way back to the touch hole, but sort of jams itself up against the narrower portion, leaving the charge separated from the source of ignition. Going from a coarser (FFg) to a finer (FFFg) powder will often fix this.

if you do have a patent breech, don't get too worried. You should tinker around and see what size bore brush will fit into the smaller section, so that part of the barrel gets well cleaned when you go to do your post - shoot scrubdown.

As an aside, if you have a hooked breech, as in a Thompson Center flintlock, and you tap out a few keys and the barrel comes off the stock, you have lucked into an easier cleaning set- up. Put the breech end of the barrel into a container of warm soapy water and run a moist patch up and down the barrel. On the first stroke, you'll see a bunch of bubbles come out of the touch hole. Then you'll see (as you run the patch up and down the bore) a bunch of nasty looking stuff come squirting out of the touch hole and into the water. When the water looks disgusting enough to toss on a politician, dump it out and start again with clean. A few cycles out to get you clean water, and your bore is pretty well cleared of fouling, and ready for whatever oil you use. Clean the rest of the rifle as normal. -- i've used this system for better than forty years and my rifles still look great.

If you want to get really elaborate, you can probably get or make a breech face scraper which will get the last little bit of fouling from the back of the patent breech, but i think this is 'gilding the lily,' and i've never bothered with it... on the other hand, if it makes you feel better, i don't see the harm.

A lot of the fun of this game is in the tinkering, to my mind.

good luck, and
Make Good Smoke! =)

 

[Kansas Jake]

MSW, it is a Traditions. I too have a Traditions 36 Shenandoah and suggested the light thump on the ground when reloading. The narrow "patent" breach on those things seems to inhibit powder from entering the breach after a couple of shots. I would get good ignition for the first two or three shots, but then start to get flash in the pans unless I fed a bit of powder into the touch hole with a pick. Giving the but a light thump seems to help powder get into the breach and flashes in the pan became much less frequent if the flint was sharp etc. It also meant I didn't have to push pan powder into the touch hole.

 

[Road_Clam]

MSW,
Thanks so much for chiming in. I do in fact have a patent breech design. When I run my jag to the bottom of the bore I can't see the jag through the touch hole. I'm in the process of fabricating a small pin vice that I can affix to my ram rod and hold a small 1/8" nylon brush. This hopefully will scrub the small passageway that connects to the touch hole . I know that my ball puller screw does not feed into the small diameter so I'm going to incramentlly machine down a #8-32 bras screw until it fits into the hole and I can see the screw through the touch hole.

 

[Flint62Smoothie]

With patent breech arms, I found a good thump (hand slap) on the breech area to be far more effective than bouncing the butt on the ground.

 

[MSW]

I'm going under the assumption that yours is a .50 cal, or possibly a .45. I would go with FFFg in either caliber, but some have had good result with FFg, although it appears that your rifle doesn't really care for the coarser powder.

Some people make a 'duplex' load - a very small bit of FFFFg to go in the patent breech, and the remainder of the charge using FFFg or FFg. This is really a pain in the neck, and i would avoid it if at all possible. Additionally, to not succumb to the temptation of using FFFFg as you main charge - this will end badly, not only for you but quite possibly for someone next to you at the range: just don't do it!

It sounds like you have the problem on the run, for the most part.

Good luck, and Make Good Smoke

 

[hanshi]

I find this thread interesting because I've owned - and still own one - a good many rifles with a patent breech. I've had them from Pedersoli, Navy Arms, Traditions and CVA. I have to say that I've never had a problem with any of them. Maybe it's because I'm OCD about cleaning them; I just don't know. I do not like the patent breech at all; but I can live with them.

 

[rdstrain49]

Flint, using the old hand slap is preferable in my mind, but how on earth will you ever crack the wrist (on the rifle) if you don't bounce the gun on the ground?

 

[Flintlock_bob]

Yup hand slapper here too :thumbsup:

 

[azmntman]

:metoo:

 

[Road_Clam]

OK, per all the expert advice consensus, I will stop thumping, and start slapping.