2nd Range Trip , much better !

[Road_Clam]

So today 10 out of 12 went off, so i'm getting a much better method down for loading. The 2 shots that misfired, all's I did was add more pan powder and thump the side of the stock while tilting to the left and they fired. It's clear to me that getting the pan powder into the vent hole is key to a successful shot. I still think a larger dia touch hole insert will help in channeling some powder into the breech. I have an extra insert that I drilled to .072 and we will see if it helps. I also did mostly dry patch between shot wipes, I would do a moist patch every other shot. My touch hole stayed totally dry today so that's good. So today's method :

1) add 60 gr of 2F powder, lightly thump vertical rifle on ground a few times.
2) add patch and ball, slight powder compression
3) add a tiny bit of pan powder and thump the buttstock while tilted to left. (I could actually see some powder flow into the touch hole)
4) fill the pan to just below the vent hole.
5) BOOM
6) 2 dry patch swabs.
7) clean frizzen and flint with alcohol.
8) reload.

I did notice a difference between a perfect "no lag" ignition, vs a very slight lag ignition. This is where I will need to fine tune my method. Today i'm just happy I made positive progress. I gotta say shooting a flinter sucessfully is VERY gratifying ! I also am getting close to a good 50 yd zero. I need to file down the front sight. My rear leaf is just about maxed out for height, and I still about 3" low at 50 yds. A HUGE thank you to all who fed me tips on what my problems were !

 

[ghostdncr]

This sounds like a very promising turn of events! :thumbsup:

Am I correct in understanding your lock time varied from shot to shot on this 2nd range trip? I'm sure you'll get numerous suggestions to remedy this, if that is indeed the case. I've found that developing a consistent loading method will, as you suggest, almost completely remedy such variability. Many times, it requires a great deal of trial and error to find the exact mixture a particular flintlock likes but once you have it...

 

[Stumpkiller]

Sooner or later you will get into trouble dry patching after a shot. They get stuck and stuck well and truly.

I just load again and shoot.

What kind of lube are you using on your patching?

 

[Road_Clam]

What kind of lube are you using on your patching?

For now while i'm learning i'm simply using Ox-yoke prelubed .015" patches.

 

[Stumpkiller]

I would recommend one saliva damp patch between shots.

Personally I think swabbing between shots is too much digging around in the pouch and only tends to push fouling down near the vent.

 

[William O.]

A dry swabbing patch is a sure way to get a stuck patch and it ain't fun.
I use cotton flannel as a swab that has been barely dampened wit rubbing alcohol. Since alcohol naturally attracts water it's always there and it removes a great deal of fouling along with the soft fuzz of the flannel. Plus the alcohol evaporates quickly taking the water with it. Swabbing is just that; down and up, then discard the patch.

 

[curator]

I would recommend one saliva damp patch between shots.

Personally I think swabbing between shots is too much digging around in the pouch and only tends to push fouling down near the vent.

Stumpkiller gives good advice. However, if you wipe the bore between shots with a slightly damp (spit will do) it doesn't have to push fouling into the breech/vent area if you use the correctly sized patch and jag. Dry patches are sure to get stucjk eventually, so don't do it.

A "properly made" jag has a thinner section behind the head that allows the patch material to bunch up when it is pulled out. Using too thick or too large of a patch will indeed push fouling into the breech. Using the right size/thickness patch, slides down the bore and only when reversed, bunches up and pulls the fouling out with it. "The devil is in the details" is what my NRA muzzle loading coach-counselor would say. Do it right and it works every time!

 

[Road_Clam]

Honestly, i've had no indication whatsoever of a "stuck patch". I think I have a nice snug jag fit. I feel a bit of resistance on the 1st dry swab, observing a LOT of gunk on the patch, then the 2nd swab goes smoother and patch looks much cleaner. That being said, I will certainly test your suggested "spit" swab method on my next range trip.

 

[BigAl52]

I dont swab between shots either. Im also not a big fan of prelubed patches. I use Hoppes #9 or some Mr Flintlocks lube on my patches and have shot quite a few shots before doing any swabbing. Al

 

[Sasquash]

Try this to lube your patches: https://www.nivea.com.au/products/NIVEA-Creme

No problem of using dry patches to swab the bore between shots...the residues are soft and accuracy is great.

I have used saliva spit, traditions wonder lubed patches, vaseline, and Nivea is just cheap and gives me the best accuracy...and my hands are smooth and smell good.
I also use it for sealing the chambers of my Navy revolvers.

I´m not a seller nor work for Nivea :grin: :grin: :grin:

 

[Larry Akers]

It's clear to me that getting the pan powder into the vent hole is key to a successful shot.

I have had better success with ignition by getting the charge powder closer to the pan powder instead of the converse that you are doing. With the exception of Chamber's White Lightening, all inserts have too long a channel (IMO) between the outside surface of the insert and the point where the channel widens out. Look at your liner. I'll bet the channel is at least 1/8-3/16" long. I take a cylindro-conoidal Dremel burr, a little less than 3/16" dia., and re-shape and deepen the internal cavity of the liner until I have no more than 1/32" of channel left. Your powder charge is brought right to the outside surface giving you more reliable ignition without having to enlarge the touch hole. Look up Chamber's site--he has a cut-away picture of a White Lightening liner showing what I have tried to describe. I have been making my own liners, or modifying store-boughts, thusly for almost 40 years. I just don't have flashes in the pan. If the priming ignites, my gun says BANG. BTW I make my touchholes .059".

 

[excess650]

Its apparent that you're not getting powder through the bore to the vent, so is why you have better luck introducing powder through the pan side. It sounds like one of those "patent breech issues". fffg will flow through the channel more easily than ffg, so one possible solution.

My quickest flintlock has a White Lightning liner with less than 1/16" hole, so going bigger isn't necessarily better. My others are right at 1/16" and very reliable.

I gave up on pre-lubed patches some 20 years back. I was working with a new to me percussion rifle for some likely foul weather hunting, and couldn't get it to group worth a hoot. I switched to pillow ticking and the difference was dramatic.

 

[Black Hand]

Honestly, i've had no indication whatsoever of a "stuck patch".

You've been lucky. It is a matter of when if using a dry patch to swab...

 

[azmntman]

I would say very soon. And then ya make up new words and use em long strings. :grin:

 

[Black Hand]

I would say very soon. And then ya make up new words and use em long strings. :grin:

And in such creative combinations too.

Honestly, i've had no indication whatsoever of a "stuck patch".

When the dry patch does get stuck, pour a little water down the barrel and wait a few minutes before pulling...

 

[hanshi]

Hoppes BP Lube and TOW mink oil is all I lube with and no wiping is necessary. I just load and shoot all afternoon. A snug patch fit helps. I use .022" cotton canvas duck for patches.

 

[BigBoreBLR]

White lightning make a touch hole insert thats drop in for the thompson center. I don't think they make one for the lyman.

This would help.

As said before swapping to 3f would make the powder get behind your touchhole better.

Wiping the "roof" section of the frizzen causes more heat to be reflected and then channeled into the touch hole.

A few things I do when my lyman GPR acts up.

A little fussy.....

I pick the vent and push a little powder from the pan down into it, but still do a final pick clean. I also make sure I clean everything with the lock good first. Pan is real clean. The frizzen "roof" that covers the pan. The flint too. I do wipe the frizzen face with a dry patch at times too. When the crub ring get heavy where the loaded ball sits, I put a 2nd lightly damp patch and work in the crud ring area with a few short ramrod strokes.

When she is being real stubborn....

1.) Take a lightly damp patch, put it on a 36 cal brush and clean the chamber. Then dry patch on the brush. I swirl a smaller pick in there to clean up the deeper channel of the vent hole.

2.) If one is still stubborn, then I will do two things.... Replace the vent hole with a clean spare. After that, I use an extra 10 grains of powder to get more heat and pressure to keep things blown clean and warner/dry.


Through the course of me knowing more about muzzleloading.... This has helped me become more reliable at a range /woodwalk session.

-Ditching the pre-lubed patches. Your adding alot more "gunk" into the gun. OR maybe make your own by thinning the yellow lube with 1 or 2 parts of some sort of solvent, like alcohol. Then letting them dry. You'll still have good lubrication, but you'll likely have a fifth of the lube those gooey patches originally have. When I went from pre-lubed to my own lube, I went from misfiring around 6 shots to having the gun act up around shots 10-12.

-Cleaning that patent chamber after use. I then got range sessions in the winter when I would have maybe 1 or 2 misfires during a 25 or 30 shot woodswalk event. I also coupled this with removing any sotrage oil before use too.

-Now, my gun is trouble free somedays. I am getting more zero misfire range events now that I switched to priming with 3f instead of 4f. I believe the 3f has a longer burn time. Also, for hunting the 3f is larger, so it takes longer for it to become too moist to ignite than 4f.

 

[MSW]

i would recommend that you look into Dutch Schoultz' method: here's a link
http://www.blackpowderrifleaccuracy.com/

this will cover a wide variety of topics, and bridges the gap between the theoretical and the practical. Additionally, Mr. Schoultz' guarantees that the use of his method will shrink your groups - hard to argue with that.

this is, to my mind, the best non shooting accessory you can get at any price. the cost is (if i remember correctly) about twentyfive dollars, and it's been the best investment i've made in a long time.

Good luck, and make good smoke

 

[Dr5x]

Thank you MSW.

A lt of people say they are using my System but are actually only using part of it..
Some are just using the between shot wipe. Others are using the Dry Patch formulae.
Both of these add consistency to the loading practice which is good. If you ask them what patch thickness they are using and they give you a thickness of ..015 or .018 they are only using the least part of my System.

There seems to be a reluctance to take advantage of the big discovery I stumbled across some 35 years ago..

I guess those who just fiddle with the various thickness of patches till they get increasingly smaller groups plus those bits of peripheral suggestions all together get enough combined help to to send me happy camper message.
Thisis pleasing to me . What really pleases mere the reports from folks who go all the way and get amazingly tight groups
indicating something I would call precision..

PeopleI coached at the range switched to muzzle loaders "because they were more accurate" than their modern rifles.

Dutch

 

[Dr5x]

Someone named Kris was trying to get in touch with me a few days go but a variety of commuter farts and sneezes erased all contact with him. If anyone could help reconnect me to him P would be a happy camper as U think he may feel I had rejected he is query.

Dutch U think he is on the Forum


Dutch