300 FPS Difference............

[ETipp]

Was point of impact the same or did the swiss hit higher ?

Ron, I don't remember. I've been researching and watching many videos lately. Pretty sure the video I posted was a follow up of a previous video Lewis posted.

 

[smokepolehall]

I always wonder on the chrony n the true light when shooting. I watched couple videos from Idaho Lewis. They vary from my own back some years ago. I did by volume only, my findings using 3F on the 3 powders showed my Goex with lowest velocity. Followed by Schuetzen with Swiss the highest. I am not a fan of Goex, i just happened to buy some years ago. I am a Fan of Swiss, i found that Swiss compares to T7 3 F in velocity.

 

[French Colonial]

When I was heavily into BPCRS shooting I did some testing but was not so concerned with velocity as I was with standard deviation, I wanted the lowest SD possible. Swiss had lower SD numbers Than Goex so that is what I used to develop my target loads.

 

[Nav]

KNO3, and S, are common at 99.95% pure, and therefore constants. The variable is the charcoal. What kind of tree, how pure is the carbon, how hot, how fast, how long was it cooked, etc.? Just about any charcoal will go bang when milled, but there appears to be a very measurable difference in the powder depending on the charcoal used, and the Swiss factory is the only one in the world where they make their own charcoal.

 

[Mulebrain]

I aint paying for no Swiss, unless it's all I could get. That being said it's good to see Goex and Schuetzen are close cousins. When Goex went bust I went to Schuetzen and really didn't' notice any difference.

Thanks for posting

 

[ColonialRifleSmith]

Ran across this video today. The only thing that changed was the brand of powder.

80 grains of powder (weighed).

.530 Round Ball.

Same ML......54 caliber Renegade.

Schuetzen..............1300 FPS (1353)

Swiss........................1600 FPS (1624)

GOEX.......................1400 FPS (1461)

All three of the first numbers was initially rounded.

So right at 300 FPS difference between Swiss and Schuetzen.

OK, so if a deer gets shot at 50 yards with a .54 cal. round ball at 1300fps or at 1600fps, is there a difference? NAHHH, I don't think so. Semper Fi.

 

[ETipp]

OK, so if a deer gets shot at 50 yards with a .54 cal. round ball at 1300fps or at 1600fps, is there a difference? NAHHH, I don't think so. Semper Fi.

Agreed. However, I never said nor was I alluding to a substantial difference at 50 yards. Rather it is more towards the 100 yard mark I am referring to.

 

[Ranch 13]

Due to the different screen sizes used in Goex red can, and the imported powders, a true comparison can't be made unless, you use 3f Goex against 2f import's.

 

[Dobegrant]

good information, thanks for sharing, I am going to order Swiss next order.

 

[ETipp]

Due to the different screen sizes used in Goex red can, and the imported powders, a true comparison can't be made unless, you use 3f Goex against 2f import's.

That's true.

But velocity is velocity. Energy is energy. The ball doesn't care what is used to push it, all it knows is how fast its going.

All testing in the video was done with the same ML and the same 80 grains of powder charge.

 

[Roughneck]

I used Swiss exclusively when I was shooting offhand matches a few years back, it was faster and cleaner, I still have a few pounds but then it got harder to get so I switched to Old Eynsford but I think Swiss is hard to beat.

 

[ETipp]

good information, thanks for sharing, I am going to order Swiss next order.

To be clear, I have no agenda to push a certain brand of powder. And as I have stated, I've never shot Swiss nor Schewtzen. I've always gotten by with GOEX and I seem to have decent results it. I might order some Swiss some day JFG.

 

[Nav]

The OP weighed the powder. He did not measured it. If he was heavier with his ramrod the volume should be insignificant. You can take 2F and turn it into 4F by packing it into your breach. By volume you could also re-screen it for consistency. I have lab screens for all the F sizes that fit together In a stack. The corns that stay on the top is cannon, the second screen catches the 2F, the third 3F, and anything smaller ends up in the pan (4F+). The powder in the bottom two gets re-pucked and re-corned. The idea was to try and make homemade Swiss (or the strongest/cleanest possible), which is a pain. I had to do something while waiting for my kit to arrive,..

If you screen store bought powder you will find it’s not perfectly consistent either. It gets crushed and smaller every time it’s handled. Though, I would guess it comes out of their screens nearly perfect. It just isn’t perfect by the time you pour it down your barrel.

There is only so much you can do to when experimenting.

 

[Nav]

To be clear, I have no agenda to push a certain brand of powder. And as I have stated, I've never shot Swiss nor Schewtzen. I've always gotten by with GOEX and I seem to have decent results it. I might order some Swiss some day JFG.

Lol. If they paid me or gave me free powder I’d shill the heck out of it on the internets!

 

[ETipp]

The OP weighed the powder. He did not measured it. If he was heavier with his ramrod the volume should be insignificant. You can take 2F and turn it into 4F by packing it into your breach. By volume you could also re-screen it for consistency. I have lab screens for all the F sizes that fit together In a stack. The corns that stay on the top is cannon, the second screen catches the 2F, the third 3F, and anything smaller ends up in the pan (4F+). The powder in the bottom two gets re-pucked and re-corned. The idea was to try and make homemade Swiss (or the strongest/cleanest possible), which is a pain. I had to do something while waiting for my kit to arrive,..

If you screen store bought powder you will find it’s not perfectly consistent either. It gets crushed and smaller every time it’s handled. Though, I would guess it comes out of their screens nearly perfect. It just isn’t perfect by the time you pour it down your barrel.

There is only so much you can do to when experimenting.

So what exactly are you getting at here?

 

[Ranch 13]

The 2f Schuetzen and Swiss with it's smaller kernel size will have more propellant behind the ball than the larger sized red can Goex, hence the higher velocity. But velocity is only a number comparison, the number comparison that matters is the measurement of the group size.

 

[waksupi]

I wouldn't find 300 fps useful, unless it were more accurate. I would need to find the most accurate load with each brand, then do the math to figure cost per shot to see if it were worthwhile to me.

 

[ETipp]

The 2f Schuetzen and Swiss with it's smaller kernel size will have more propellant behind the ball than the larger sized red can Goex, hence the higher velocity. But velocity is only a number comparison, the number comparison that matters is the measurement of the group size.

That's exactly why Lewis always weighs his charges. He eliminates all the variables possible.

Agreed on the group size. He did both speed and accuracy test with different brands of powders.

 

[Nav]

I’m just getting at that your process was good, and your test results are probably valid and repeatable, because you weighted the charges the kernel size wouldn’t matter much.

In terms of cost, a 5lb bag of pure saltpeter is $20 (70%). A 5lb bag of pure sulfur is $20 (10% and goes a looooong way). If you buy bulk it’s significantly cheaper. Charcoal is practically free if you don’t get fancy and use exotic woods. I had a ball mill already and H press already, so I bought hardened lead balls for $50, one time expense. 5 lbs of (hopefully) clean BP ends up costing me $22/lb on the first batch, and $4.40/lb thereafter. Plus I’m not dependent on supply chains and will never not be able to get the powder I want/need. Done with that manure after this last decade. Now I buy stick powder cheap and stack it deep. I have enough H4350 to keep shooting and attending matches for years.

 

[ETipp]

I wouldn't find 300 fps useful, unless it were more accurate. I would need to find the most accurate load with each brand, then do the math to figure cost per shot to see if it were worthwhile to me.

If you look at the chart above, 300 FPS at 100 yards is substantial for a RB.

Agreed on accuracy. However, if I got the same accuracy, or close to it, with a ball going 300 FPS faster, then I would opt for the faster one every time, especially for elk hunting or for shots out to the 100 yard mark.

I could care less about target shooting and fast speed. I am a hunter first and foremost. About the only time I shoot my hunting ML is when hunting. So a little additional cost per shot is basically meaningless.

But like I said, I don't even know if I'll try any other brand of BP. I seem to get by just fine with what I've been using for many years.