300 FPS Difference............

[ETipp]

I’m just getting at that your process was good, and your test results are probably valid and repeatable, because you weighted the charges the kernel size wouldn’t matter much.

In terms of cost, a 5lb bag of pure saltpeter is $20 (70%). A 5lb bag of pure sulfur is $20 (10% and goes a looooong way). If you buy bulk it’s significantly cheaper. Charcoal is practically free if you don’t get fancy and use exotic woods. I had a ball mill already and H press already, so I bought hardened lead balls for $50, one time expense. 5 lbs of (hopefully) clean BP ends up costing me $22/lb on the first batch, and $4.40/lb thereafter. Plus I’m not dependent on supply chains and will never not be able to get the powder I want/need. Done with that manure after this last decade. Now I buy stick powder cheap and stack it deep. I have enough H4360 to keep shooting and attending matches for years.

Understood. Making your own is a good thing.

The video I posted of the testing was made by Idaho Lewis. He is one particular person while doing his testing.

 

[pacanis]

I’ve never had Swiss. Do folks that use or have used both think it’s worth the 33% difference in price

Definitely.
The first time I shot Swiss and got dialed in, I was using less powder, the gun did not foul as much (so the 12th shot loaded as easily as the 3rd without any swabbing) and the groups were tighter.
It was noisier though. If that bothers you. More of a crack, so I'm guessing 25grs of Swiss pushed me further over the sound barrier than the 30grs of Goex I was using. Which was just confirmed may have been 300fps faster.

 

[gunpa]

ETipp , your findings are right in line with what I've seen on other YouTube videos such as Everything Black Powder. The charcoal seems to be very important.

 

[le125verne]

Honestly i have never found the Goex to be faster than Schuetzen. Swiss has been the tops in velocity. Is it worth the extra $'s. I think it is if you can afford it. Lets face it there be many that pay large sums of samolians for that stuff they call BH209.

Here in Queen Mary's Land(MD), in Essex, a pound of 2f or 3f Swiss or a pound of 3f Goex was the same price.

 

[French Colonial]

When shooting BPCRS guns at rams at 500 meters, your standard deviation makes a big difference.

Higher deviations means a larger variation in velocity which gives at the very least higher and lower impacts.
Lower deviations, lower variation in velocity.

Now... 1. at the distances that most muzzleloaders are shooting it probably is not enough to matter but it is still there.
2. I rationalize the price of Swiss not by figuring the price per pound but the price difference between whatever and Swiss, if your going to buy a pound anyway the lowest price is the baseline and the difference determines whether Swiss is worth it or not, which I happen to think it is.

 

[Frontier's]

My measure set at 70gr volume. Id say Swiss is grain for grain on the scale.

 

[nhmoose]

Ah, I only care about the powder I am shooting. 10-15 grains more or less = meh.
What counts is group on target. X's win

 

[longcruise]

If it's velocity by weight, the winner is probably pyrodex.

 

[kyron4]

If it's velocity by weight, the winner is probably pyrodex.

It does seem to be a bit hotter than equal amounts of 2F.

 

[maillemaker]

Your experience jives with what I have heard in N-SSA competition circles. We had a teammate who used Swiss exclusively and said he could use less Swiss for an equivalent velocity of Goex, and so it was a wash price-wise. Looks like about a 10% difference in speed, I think Swiss is about 30% more expensive though (today anyway).

 

[Art Caputo]

I think it’s important to keep in mind that when shooting the low BC LRB’s, that muzzle velocity differences, important for accuracy testing, will diminish rapidly as the range exceeds 50 yards. This will be the case whether MV is manage by the brand of powder or the charge weight. A 300FPS difference in MV can falll off to as much as 100FPS by 100 yards.

 

[ETipp]

I think it’s important to keep in mind that when shooting the low BC LRB’s, that muzzle velocity differences, important for accuracy testing, will diminish rapidly as the range exceeds 50 yards. This will be the case whether MV is manage by the brand of powder or the charge weight. A 300FPS difference in MV can falll off to as much as 100FPS by 100 yards.
View attachment 244091

True that and that's one reason why I'm keeping my load near maximum.

I have two different ballistics charts for the .54 RB. They show the the velocity and energy at different distances. A 300 FPS increase adds about 106 more Ft lbs of energy at 100 yards.

As is, mine is shooting on at 30 yards and 75 yards but drops about 3-4 inches at 100 yards. I did not test it at 50 yards so there may be a little bit of an arc there. I stopped testing because it is accurate and ready to hunt.

 

[Nav]

300 fps is going to buy you about another 35 yards. You can play with this round ball solver and see for yourself what increasing MV by 300 fps will get you.
http://www.ctmuzzleloaders.com/ctml_experiments/rbballistics/web_apps/rb_ballistics.htmlThe gains are greater the bigger the ball. 50 cal seemed huge to me when I started this. Now it seems small.

 

[Col. Batguano]

As was stated earlier, in obtaining the same velocities, you can decrease your charges in Swiss by about 10%-15% relative to the other powders, so roughly 1/3 of that price differential will be recovered there. The other benefits (such as decreased fouling, easier cleaning, and enhanced accuracy) are more intangible. You have to decide for yourself how important they are for you in your situation. Ergo; informally plinking at cans on a summer Saturday with buddies is one thing. The final round of a national competition, or that one shot at the biggest elk you'll ever see in your lifetime on a trip you've spent thousands of dollars on is another.

It all contributes to what I call the "confidence factor". When I take that shot, I want my load and powder selection to be about the LAST thing I'm thinking about. "If I do MY part" is my only concern.

 

[ETipp]

As was stated earlier, in obtaining the same velocities, you can decrease your charges in Swiss by about 10%-15% relative to the other powders, so roughly 1/3 of that price differential will be recovered there. The other benefits (such as decreased fouling, easier cleaning, and enhanced accuracy) are more intangible. You have to decide for yourself how important they are for you in your situation. Ergo; informally plinking at cans on a summer Saturday with buddies is one thing. The final round of a national competition, or that one shot at the biggest elk you'll ever see in your lifetime on a trip you've spent thousands of dollars on is another.

It all contributes to what I call the "confidence factor". When I take that shot, I want my load and powder selection to be about the LAST thing I'm thinking about. "If I do MY part" is my only concern.

Well said.

 

[smokepolehall]

300 fps loss of velocity is a large amount if your trying to push a large weight projectile out to 100 yards. The drop in inches will be obvious. I will choose the highest velocity i can handle on recoil to my shoulder if hunting. Try to keep my projectile as flat i possible out at the 100 yards area.

 

[ETipp]

300 fps loss of velocity is a large amount if your trying to push a large weight projectile out to 100 yards. The drop in inches will be obvious. I will choose the highest velocity i can handle on recoil to my shoulder if hunting. Try to keep my projectile as flat i possible out at the 100 yards area.

Yep, I concur.

 

[longcruise]

It matters less and less to me! Last year I was good to 75 yards with a rest on the hunt. My last outing with my elk gun says it's 50 yards this year! I'm OK with that. I hunt the timber where getting close is feasible.

 

[Nav]

How big a ball you throwin' @ 50yds?

 

[longcruise]

How big a ball you throwin' @ 50yds?

Either a 495 or a 535. If only hunting deer it could be Either. For elk it's always a 535.