.32 caliber frustrations with not grouping.

[40calFlintlock]

First off, it sounds like your vent is too big.

Thank you for your response.

The touch hole is 1/64” diameter, verified with certified grade ‘B’ gage pins. A .016dia pin will not go and a .015dia pin will go.

 

[40calFlintlock]

Where are you located in N.E.Ohio ? I made a 32 cal. percussion half stock and use ox yoke .015 patch with 25 gr. goex 3f powder. At 25 yds. from a rest I can shoot a 1" to ! 1/2" group using neatsfoot oil as a lube.

Thank you for your reply.

I do live in N.E. Ohio. Was out this past Thursday. 80deg F, about 50% humidity, partly sunny, an occasional breeze, perfect conditions. I was supposed to be painting bedroom doors, but convinced the Mrs. I can paint when it’s a rainy day

One of my past experiments used .015 ox yoke dry lube patch, a .315 swaged ball, and the same powder & charge you listed. Three trials, three shots each trial, the grand average (the average of each trial) was, rounded-off to, 3.25inches. That combination was never repeated.

 

[40calFlintlock]

Thanks to everyone who has replied.

After each shot, I run a dry patch down the bore and pack it against the breech. Then, using alcohol prep pads, run it down and up the bore and discard. Repeat the same. Remove the patch from the breech, then run a dry patch in the bore, pumping up and down to help evaporate the alcohol. This gives me a “clean” bore for each shot.

All other rifles I’ve conducted the same Design of Experiments using three shots and found the ideal combination for clover leafing shots. That’s why I was using three shots for my 32, as it worked before. I will start working with five shots and then increase to ten with the best five shot groups.

Again, Thank you everyone for your help!

 

[Grenadier1758]

Thank you for your response.

The touch hole is 1/64” diameter, verified with certified grade ‘B’ gage pins. A .016dia pin will not go and a .015dia pin will go.

??? Most touch holes are 1/16" (0.0625") in diameter. A touch hole of 1/64" (0.0156") is way too small for reliable ignition.

 

[Duk]

My first shot with a clean barrel is always off mark, once the barrel is fouled things tighten up.

 

[Wirehair]

What's your twist rate? This may be a factor. Your loading procedure should result in consistent groups. Since the touch hole is too small, try drilling it out to 1/16" and see what happens (nothing to lose at this point). Inconsistent ignition will not produce target accuracy. Based on all your trials, you may just have a lousy barrel and replacement might now be an option.

 

[JDBraddy]

I'm also new to .32cal. Recently bought a. 32cal Green Mountain drop-in barrell for my T/C Hawken, and a .32cal T/C Cherokee. Both are shooting 1-2 inches at 50yds using balls cast with a Lee .311 RB mold, .015" pre-lubed pillow ticking over 15-20gr FFFg.

To pre-lube patch material, I place 20% Dawn dish soap, and 20% virgin olive oil, 60% isopropyl alcohal in a small bottle, and shake vigorously.

Then I cut the patch material into 1.25" strips, fold into a roll, place the roll in a plastic cup, and saturate with vigorously shaken lube mixture. I squeeze out as much as I can with fingertip pressure, then lay the strips out flat on a clean horizontal surface to dry overnight. Once dry, fold them back up and place them in a ziplock bag.

This patch material is much thinner than I use for my .50cal. For that I use 12oz Denim that mikes .024". And it requires a short starter to start the ball. I can seat the .32cal balls with stiff thumb pressure.

 

[Sam squanch]

I get my friends kid to test shoot any new gun I get. He’s in the army as a sniper, best shot I’ve seen with any type of rifle.

 

[kyron4]

Thank you for your response.

The touch hole is 1/64” diameter, verified with certified grade ‘B’ gage pins. A .016dia pin will not go and a .015dia pin will go.

Are you sure ? Most factory Traditions liners are around 1/16" both of my Traditions flinters and three Traditions made replacement liners are drilled to .067" measured with precision ground tool steel gage pins from a machine shop. The flash hole in most cap gun nipples is around .025" to .028" diameter. A .015" touch hole for a flint gun ? That can't be right.

 

[rp77469]

Thanks to everyone who has replied.

After each shot, I run a dry patch down the bore and pack it against the breech. Then, using alcohol prep pads, run it down and up the bore and discard. Repeat the same. Remove the patch from the breech, then run a dry patch in the bore, pumping up and down to help evaporate the alcohol. This gives me a “clean” bore for each shot.

All other rifles I’ve conducted the same Design of Experiments using three shots and found the ideal combination for clover leafing shots. That’s why I was using three shots for my 32, as it worked before. I will start working with five shots and then increase to ten with the best five shot groups.

Again, Thank you everyone for your help!

Retired engineer with 20+ years DOE experience. Firm believer in it with many examples of success over those years. Once you figure out what is the lurking variable and eliminate it, Bob's your uncle.

Thirty years ago Jim Chambers published an article in Muzzle Blasts, with the raw data, about the new, improved **** for his Siler lock and how it helped speed. I ran it through Statgraphics at the time. His claims were statistically significant.

I have two Bud Siler kits left, but will upgrade them with Chambers' parts when time to build based on that analysis.

"Data driven decision making. What a concept!"

 

[Flintandsteel]

Something’s not right with this whole thread. Too many confusing details.
Type of barrel, condition of rifling, touch hole size, etc.

 

[R Ellis]

Thank you for your response.

The touch hole is 1/64” diameter, verified with certified grade ‘B’ gage pins. A .016dia pin will not go and a .015dia pin will go.

I do not see how it could just fizzz thru a hole that small and not go boom seems the powder could be wet but I really cant see how that would be

 

[flconch53]

Thank you for your response.

The touch hole is 1/64” diameter, verified with certified grade ‘B’ gage pins. A .016dia pin will not go and a .015dia pin will go.

That is way to small. A bout .062 is right. I am surprised you are getting consistent ignition. How much powder are you putting in the pan. Is this a touch hole liner or did someone drill that small hole.

 

[MAC1967]

I may get some pushback from this post because it goes against the experience of most .32 shooters. . . I have a TVM Late Lancaster flint that I built with a large Siler lock and a 42 Rice barrel w 1/48 twist. I started with about 20-25 grains of 3f when working up a load and a .15 patch w 310 Hornady swagged ball (I've shot .311 but the sprue on the 32, is a bit difficult to center ). . . I settled on 34 grains of 3f Goex, spit patch, though I've used Balistol & water ( ie Dutch Schultz "dry patch) with the same results.
I asked Jason Rice if such a hot load seemed odd to him, and he said not at all.
(Honestly, the Rice barrel shoots quite well with several loads, but this was my best combo.) If you can't get a good group, you might try exceeding the typical 20-25 grains and see what happens.

 

[Sidney Smith]

I don't get why some guys go to all these lengths only to become frustrated that they can't clover leaf their gun at X yardage, using Y powder, and Z ball etc etc etc. If you wanna waste your time doing that then go for it. I've got better things to spend my time on.

My criteria with a .32 caliber is, can I hit a squirrel in the head at 25 yards with this load. If I can great, I stick with it. If not, I'll tweak the powder charge and maybe the patch a little until I can. Once there then that's it I don't fart around any more and just concentrate on shooting and hitting the target.

This "scientific research" coming from non scientists is for the birds.

 

[MAC1967]

I don't get why some guys go to all these lengths only to become frustrated that they can't clover leaf their gun at X yardage, using Y powder, and Z ball etc etc etc. If you wanna waste your time doing that then go for it. I've got better things to spend my time on.

My criteria with a .32 caliber is, can I hit a squirrel in the head at 25 yards with this load. If I can great, I stick with it. If not, I'll tweak the powder charge and maybe the patch a little until I can. Once there then that's it I don't fart around any more and just concentrate on shooting and hitting the target.

This "scientific research" coming from non scientists is for the birds.

I agree with this.
I'll even poke the bear a little more . . . I think the least important factor in the load is patch lube. I've tried different patch lubes once I got the powder, ball, and patch thickness set . . and they didn't make much difference in accuracy in my .32, 50, or smoothbore. A lubed patch loads nicer . . and probably impacts fowling, but when I collect shot patches downrange they all look the same. . . I am not saying it doesn't make any difference, I just think it is the least of the factors. . . case in point, a lot of guys talk about their loads and many have the same powder volume, ball, and patch thickness, but far less common is the same lube. . . but I'm very open to hearing people disagree. . . and I say that even as a fan of Dutch Schultz's methods.

 

[French Colonial]

I just went out and averaged several measures of powder that I use in my .32 and it came out at an average of 30 grains of 2F Swiss.

I use this in a Douglas barrel I purchased around 1980 or so and I might have known the twist at one time but do not remember or care anymore.

Using .310 balls and pillow ticking spit patches and it has always given squirrel head accuracy at squirrel shooting distances. YMMV

 

[MAC1967]

I just went out and averaged several measures of powder that I use in my .32 and it came out at an average of 30 grains of 2F Swiss.

I use this in a Douglas barrel I purchased around 1980 or so and I might have known the twist at one time but do not remember or care anymore.

Using .310 balls and pillow ticking spit patches and it has always given squirrel head accuracy at squirrel shooting distances. YMMV

30 grains of Swiss would probably about match my 34 grains of Goex. I'd like to switch to Swiss or play around with it someday but I've got a lot of Goex. I do have a can of Schuetzen I have not opened.

 

[Sidney Smith]

I think my powder charge is 25 grains, using 3fg. I have a cut deer antler tip for a powder measure. I'm going to have to pour a load and measure against my graduated powder measure to be sure. All I do know is, this charge, combined with an .010 patch and .311 ball works. Took at most 10 minutes to come up with this combination as I started at around 12 grains of powder and went up until I was consistently hitting a 2 inch orange dot at 25 yards.

 

[Pete G]

I agree with this.
I'll even poke the bear a little more . . . I think the least important factor in the load is patch lube. I've tried different patch lubes once I got the powder, ball, and patch thickness set . . and they didn't make much difference in accuracy in my .32, 50, or smoothbore. A lubed patch loads outnicer . . and probably impacts fowling, but when I collect shot patches downrange they all look the same. . . I am not saying it doesn't make any difference, I just think it is the least of the factors. . . case in point, a lot of guys talk about their loads and many have the same powder volume, ball, and patch thickness, but far less common is the same lube. . . but I'm very open to hearing people disagree. . . and I say that even as a fan of Dutch Schultz's methods.

I have a .36 that I could never get to group until I changed the lube. After that, it tightened up considerably. Only one that I’ve ever had to do this.