320 Gr. R.E.A.L. bullet

[50cal.cliff]

Been thinking about ordering a .490 mold, to use with my .50cal.. While on Midway USA I discovered a Lee mold that will cast one.490 roundball and one.490, 320 gr. REAL bullet. My gun shoots a .490 w/.18 patch well. The barrel is a 28" barrel w/1:48 twist. Suppose to have the right twist to shoot conicals or RB's , to my understanding.
My question is has anyone out there with a .50 cal with a 1:48 twist tried the .490, 320gr REAL bullets?
Did you get good accuracy with them?
Any advice on this subjest would be appreciated!

 

[LFC]

I was under the impression that the Lee mold with the .490 round ball and the R.E.A.L. cavity in the same mold actually was supposed to cast the 320-grain conical at .500. I think Midsouth Shooters' Supply gives those as the specs.

If you get that mold, I'm interested in hearing what you find about how well the Lee-cast R.E.A.L. bullets work out of that 1x48 barrel, too. Let us know once you've had some range experience with it.

 

[50cal.cliff]

You had me wondering if I looked correctly so went back to the site. Here is the link.[url] http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=362053&t=11082005[/url]
I am assuming and you now what they say about assuming! :shocked2: It is a combination mold and shows the roundball as a .490, so I would think that meant the REAL bullet wa a .490 also. I would however call and verify that before ordering.
Any way I am looking for some one who has used this bullet in a similar bore and twist to let me know about its accuracy. :hmm:

 

[Blizzard of '93]

I got that same mold, the slug is .500 with a reduced base for loading. I've shot a few, preliminary test show potential, I have 1-48 twist. I had only a t-shirt on when I was testing and the stiff recoil got to me so I decided to wait for further testing until I had a buttpad or heavy clothes on. I was loading 70 gr. 3F.

 

[50cal.cliff]

Have you miked the bullet Vs the ball do the both come out a .490?
Souds like it my have a kick like a bay mule! :haha: Ought to knock down a deer if it don't get you first! :rotf: :rotf:
Thanks for the info!

 

[LFC]

Here's the link to the same product at Midsouth:
[url] http://www.midsouthshooterssupply.com/item.asp?sku=0000690488[/url]

 

[Blizzard of '93]

.490 ball, .502 slug.

 

[Ironwood]

I have been using the Lee R.E.A.L. Combination mould for several years now. The mould cast a .490" roundball that weighs 177 grains. The 320 grain R.E.A.L. bullet actually cast at 313 grains. The base of the bullet from my mould meausures .500" the driving bands are a little wider.

I recovered this bullet after discharging it with a CO2 discharger.

 

[50cal.cliff]

Are you shooting that from a .50 cal.?
I know what .490 ball loads like and have loaded a .495 ball, that's do-able but tight. I would imagine a .500 might be a tad tight.
I just had one of those duh moments :redface: :shocked2:
The only time I ever had any personal experience with a conical, it was with a borrowed gun and he didn't use a patch the lube seals it. They were lubed with a beeswax mix I think!
Is that right?
What is the lenght and twist on your barrel you are shooting this from?
How do you rate the accuracy and the knock down of the REAL bullet?
Any problems worth noteing?

 

[Darkgael]

I've been using them for years. My oldest and first muzzleloader is a percussion gun with a 1-48 barrel. The REAL slugs have always shot very nicely from it. I usually shoot mild loads of 65grs. ffg. Offhand at 50yds. they all stay in about four inches.
I have used the .45 REAL as a bullet in a .45 Colt case (with a chamber adapter) as a plinker load for my Martini-Henry MK.IV. The front driving band on that is 0.464 which is close enough to the rifle's bore at 0.468 to give acceptable accuracy at 50 yds. - again about four inches.

 

[Runner]

The 320 50 caliber REAL is a very good design that is just enough too small to make it iffy in a lot of guns. Rifling engraved at loading with each of the raised bands being larger and sloped backwards so that the slope both centers each band at the muzzle and supposedly slides over fouling. The top angle is designed to scrape the fouling when the bullet is fired. In a lot of guns paper patching is required to get really good accuracy. The same bullet a little bit bigger would be a smash hit success, IMHO. On the other hand, the 45 caliber 250's shoot very well out of steel framed revolvers.

 

[Ironwood]

My rifle is a 50 caliber that has a 1-48 twist. Bore diameter of a 50 caliber should be .50". The rifling grooves are cut into that. The grooves are usually around .010" deep. As you can see the .018" patch combined with a .495" ball is going to be a little on the tight side. But that's what you really want with a roundball. The patch fits tightly into the rifle grooves and engraves into the ball. If all works right, when the rifle is fired, the patch rides the grooves and imparts the spin to the ball.

The REAL bullet actually loads very easy. As you can see, in the photo from my earlier reply, the base of the bullet is not engraved by the rifling. The driving bands are engraved. I use a lube of beeswax and olive oil. I get very good accuracy with the REAL Bullet at .50 yards, off the bench, 3 shots are usually right around 1". That's about as good as my 70 year old eyes can do with open sights.

I don't really believe there is any such thing as "knock down" as far as a bullet is concerned. With that being said the REAL bullet is a very good killer with an adequate charge of black powder. A high broadside hit, on a Texas grown doe, ricocheted from just behind the shoulder angling through the body to just under the skin at the back of the offside ham. The retained weight was still 310 grains.

 

[Idaho Ron]

I have a 320 gr REAL mould. I have had very good luck with the bullets but like another guy said I wished it was bigger like 410 gr. I use them for rabbit and rock chuck hunting. Ron

 

[Blizzard of '93]

you must have monster rabbits and chucks out there Rom. I'm working on that loading for wild hog here in Carolina. I was shooting 70 gr. 3F and had only t-short on, recoil got to me after about 12 shots so put off any more development until I could fit butt-pad or wear heavy clothes.

 

[50cal.cliff]

Thanks for the info guys, it's all very informative!
At the risk of sounding stupid, I am going to revisit that Duh! moment :surrender: I had in the earlier post as I don't think I got a definative answer!
Is the REAL bullet loaded with a patch or not?
It has been years but, best as I remember the friend I borrowed the muzzleloader from that introduced me to the conical as he called it. The conical looked like the real bullet. I remember him telling me that he didn't use a patch with a bullet like the REAL bullet, He said "the bullet were lubed with a beeswax mix and that lube acted as a sealant (patch)"!
I do not remember using a patch with this combo!If I am correct about the no patch loading.
Does this create a leading problem with the REAL bullet or does the beeswax lube keep that from happening?

 

[paulvallandigham]

Why not back that load down to 50 grains of FFg under that huge slug. If you are boar hunting, all the shots are close, so you don't need to try to flatten the trajectory for a longer shot. I have yet to see a shot at a wild boar that wasn't inside bow hunting range. The huge slug is going to kill that boar just fine with the lower powder charge, and your shoulder won't be screaming at you. If you are shooting a " Hawken " style stock with those narrow buttplates, those heavy slugs are going to hurt you. If you change the buttplate to a wider, flatter, " shotgun style " plate, you should be able to handle the recoil.

You should also try my isometric technique for shooting heavy recoiling guns. see;
[url] www.chuckhawks.com/Controlling_Heavy_Recoil.htm[/url]

 

[LFC]

It's my understanding (NOT based on experience--so I'd wait until someone with experience confirms this) that conicals in general are loaded WITHOUT patches. You certainly can't patch them the way you do with round balls--i.e., so that the patch wraps around the projectile. That's why the conicals are of slightly greater diameter than the round balls (and also why conicals NEED to be cast out of soft lead that won't swell as it cools, like wheel weights will): conicals are fit to the bore with a much tighter tolerance, and actually have to be deformed just a bit on loading, in that the rifling sort of engraves the ridges on the conical bullet. Look at the picture above of the R.E.A.L. bullet, which shows the marks from the bullet's having been rammed down through the rifled barrel. (You can see why a harder, wheel-weight-type bullet that's expanded on cooling would be undesirable in the conical context.)

SOME people use little over-powder-patch-like things (like .500 discs of cardboard, or the like) between the powder and non-Minie conicals, on the theory that that prevents the hot gases from deforming the base of the conical, thereby giving greater accuracy. But, in my understanding, this is not necessary. And it's also not a real "patch", in the ordinary sense that you use a patch in conjunction with a round ball.

I write all of the above with this one major caveat: I get all of my information on this via the internet, and have never, myself, either loaded or fired a conical bullet. My experience is limited to patched round balls. I welcome corrections (or confirmation) from anyone in the forum who's actually experienced in this.

 

[SCATTERSHOT]

Cliff, the R.E.A.L. bullet is fired lubricated, without a patch. It doesn't lead the bore,in my experience. The pressure from the burning powder obturates (expands) the bullet to seal the bore, and the lubricant is there to prevent leading and soften the fouling. I believe you're overthinking the diameter thing. The bullet is designed to fit in a .50 caliber barrel without a patch, and the only way you'll know if it works well in your rifle is to try a few with different loads and see.

 

[50cal.cliff]

Cool, that's what I thought but couldn't remember for sure, that's been 22+ years ago. I just wanted to verify my memory! That was my first experience with BP and have shot nothing but round ball since!
Now I got to find some to try out, don't want to buy a mold till I find out if my gun will like them.
Thanks for the info, Scattershot!

 

[paulvallandigham]

Cliff: you can use a OP wad or even one of the OxYoke wool wads with lube in it, under the base of that slug. That will help seal gases behind the slug, and prevent blow by, and gas cutting.