.36 Colt Navy that powerful??????

[French Colonial]

After you internet hero's on both sides of this argument get tired of chest thumping maybe you can say something about the power level of a .36 Navy....

Just saying....

 

[Gopher0]

Reminds me of what Kruschev said: Try to avoid fighting as much as you can. But if you have to fight, give it everything you have.
I have to agree.

My dad had a saying " If you don't look where ya walking ya step in Sh*t " I I agree its on them.

 

[cynthialee]

I have only had to resort to pulling a gun once. 1851 Colt (Italian reproduction in fantasy .44)
Happened back in '88 I think it was. Guy in the Greyhound bus stop of Shreveport, LA late at night waiting for my next bus. Demanded my money after I gave him a light for his smoke, giving me the mad eye, chest out, hands looking like he was ready to pop me one.
So I pulled my pistol out of my travel bag acting like I was going to comply.
Fella took one look at that pistol and backed up hands up pleading a misunderstanding....misunderstanding sure, when you demand my money under threat of violence I am the one who misunderstood.

A dozen people must have seen what went down and nobody said a word to me. Never been through that town ever again. I will drive the long way.

I suspect that brandished Colts have given pause to thousands of would be brigands over the many years since it was made.

 

[bullshot]

After you internet hero's on both sides of this argument get tired of chest thumping maybe you can say something about the power level of a .36 Navy....

Just saying....

After you internet hero's on both sides of this argument get tired of chest thumping maybe you can say something about the power level of a .36 Navy....

Just saying....

I'm aware of only one test of C&B "stopping power": Ed Sanow 1998. BLACK POWDER STOPPING POWER! Handguns February P. 43-67 (with gaps in paging)

He shot into ballistic gelatin with round balls and conicals. Stretch cavity and penetration was converted into "One-Shot-Stop" percentage using Fuller Index which is based on actual shooting results on humans.

Round balls outperformed conicals (non-HP). "The issue is velocity and energy loss in the target. Just as round ball sheds more energy in the air than conical ball, it also dumps more energy in tissue. Tissue is 800 times denser than air. Wound ballistics is where the round ball turns the table on the conical bullet."

'51 Navy 79 gr RB 22grs FFFG 1038 fps 59% one-shot-stop
1860 Army 141 gr RB 35 grs FFFG 935 fps 75% one-shot-stop
Walker 141 gr RB 60grs FFFG 1287 fps 87% one-shot-stop
'51 Navy was similar to .380 88gr HP @ 1000 fps. (59% vs 58%)
1860 Army surpasses .45 ACP Hardball (75% vs 69%)
Walker is surpassed only by modern HP ammo in .357, .44 Mag etc etc

Final note: Don't shoot the messenger. I am simply reporting Sanow's findings

 

[Oldcorps]

Can't report on the stopping power but-----I fired my brand new Pietta Navy 36 today for the very first time at around one pm. It's close to five pm and I still can't wipe the gigantic smile off my face. By the way, this was my first time shooting black powder. OOHRAH!

 

[Dark Angel]

I probably would have been smart enough not be be in areas that have a high propensity for criminal activity. Like Mardi Gras, please, just setting yourself up for a criminal attack, IMHO

French Quarter, New Orleans, LA during Mardi Gras, Thrift Store, 12t St. and Vine, Kansas City, MO. Neither exactly 'High Crime' area. Like saying you should avoid going into banks because there' a 1-1000 chance they might be held up.

 

[Dark Angel]

French Colonial, you're absolutely correct. this is a muzzle loading, black powder forum. When I get trolled by some armchair commando, I sometimes overreact. ............. Would love to have another .36 Navy. Had one until the bolt broke (cylinder lock) and couldn't find an adequate replacement. Became a 'wall hanger' at that point. Carry a .44 cal. New Army now, with the fully fluted cylinder. (Though, in an old book, someone called the fully fluted cylinder, 'New Frontier'.)

 

[Flintlock Whiskey]

who would listen to anything Khrushchev had to say?

Those who read and those who study history. Besides, I was referring to the principle of the quote. It doesn't matter who said it. Besides, even though he was a bastard, he knew something about a difficult fight what with the invasion of the nazis and stopping them at the Volga. I believe the principle is also found in the book "Art of War".

 

[Flintlock Whiskey]

French Quarter, New Orleans, LA during Mardi Gras, Thrift Store, 12t St. and Vine, Kansas City, MO. Neither exactly 'High Crime' area. Like saying you should avoid going into banks because there' a 1-1000 chance they might be held up.

Jeddidiah may be a bit too free about giving his opinion too quickly. That said, these days, everywhere has the potential to become a high crime area.

 

[Flintlock Whiskey]

After you internet hero's on both sides of this argument get tired of chest thumping maybe you can say something about the power level of a .36 Navy....

Just saying....

I have heard from several sources that they are comparable to .38S&W, especially when loaded with conical bullets. They have caused their fair share of dirt naps. As I'm sure you know, they were coveted by troops on both sides of the war between the states and at least tens of thousands of them were manufactured. The Colt navy was being produced even when dedicated cartridge six guns were as they were still popular. Apparently, they were still in common use up to the 1930's. They had to be effective enough to keep that kind of following. There are a number of YT videos dealing with this subject that are fun to watch, might want to check them out.

 

[Flintlock Whiskey]

Can't report on the stopping power but-----I fired my brand new Pietta Navy 36 today for the very first time at around one pm. It's close to five pm and I still can't wipe the gigantic smile off my face. By the way, this was my first time shooting black powder. OOHRAH!

Good for you. Once you have one, you will never want to sell it off.

 

[rodwha]

I'm aware of only one test of C&B "stopping power": Ed Sanow 1998. BLACK POWDER STOPPING POWER! Handguns February P. 43-67 (with gaps in paging)

He shot into ballistic gelatin with round balls and conicals. Stretch cavity and penetration was converted into "One-Shot-Stop" percentage using Fuller Index which is based on actual shooting results on humans.

Round balls outperformed conicals (non-HP). "The issue is velocity and energy loss in the target. Just as round ball sheds more energy in the air than conical ball, it also dumps more energy in tissue. Tissue is 800 times denser than air. Wound ballistics is where the round ball turns the table on the conical bullet."

'51 Navy 79 gr RB 22grs FFFG 1038 fps 59% one-shot-stop
1860 Army 141 gr RB 35 grs FFFG 935 fps 75% one-shot-stop
Walker 141 gr RB 60grs FFFG 1287 fps 87% one-shot-stop
'51 Navy was similar to .380 88gr HP @ 1000 fps. (59% vs 58%)
1860 Army surpasses .45 ACP Hardball (75% vs 69%)
Walker is surpassed only by modern HP ammo in .357, .44 Mag etc etc

Final note: Don't shoot the messenger. I am simply reporting Sanow's findings

I would love to see this test done again with sporting grade powders and better bullets with a large meplat.

 

[rodwha]

I have heard from several sources that they are comparable to .38S&W, especially when loaded with conical bullets. They have caused their fair share of dirt naps. As I'm sure you know, they were coveted by troops on both sides of the war between the states and at least tens of thousands of them were manufactured. The Colt navy was being produced even when dedicated cartridge six guns were as they were still popular. Apparently, they were still in common use up to the 1930's. They had to be effective enough to keep that kind of following. There are a number of YT videos dealing with this subject that are fun to watch, might want to check them out.

Depends on both the powder used as well as the bullet. I’ve seen .36 numbers that place it squarely in the .38 Spl +P range, which makes more sense when we hear about how well it stopped a man.

 

[bud in pa]

I have to laugh at those who belittle 36' 31, 25, & 22 firearms. The worst I have been shot with is a Daisy BB gun as a kid. At 80 yrs. old I still remember it. thank God it was a Daisy I wouldn't want to get shot with a real gun no matter the caliber. If Anyone remembers the LA bank robbery with the accompanying shoot out with the LA police. The last robber to be taken out was stopped by a shot to the foot. It Incapacitated him.

 

[Flintlock Whiskey]

I suspect that brandished Colts have given pause to thousands of would be brigands over the many years since it was made.

I had something similar happen to me. In the middle of nowhere AZ. Walking back to my truck after a day of prospecting. Couple of meth head looking guys sitting in the bed of their truck about fifty feet away. One jumps off and starts over to me in that "I'm a jackass" kind of stride. It was winter and I took off my jacket and revealed an 1860 army. That stopped him cold and panic came across his face. He wished me a good day and went back to the rock he crawled out from under. They are a big gun and look like they are full of big trauma. Just having one in sight is enough to give even a druggie burnout a second thought.

 

[bullshot]

I would love to see this test done again with sporting grade powders and better bullets with a large meplat.

Went back and looked. He doesn't mention much about the conicals. He has photo of the 200 gr conical used in the .44s. Its front end profile resembles that of .45ACP Hardball. He doesn't mention powder brand. However, his ROA RB velocity was1031 with 40 grs 3F (brand not given). Twelve shots from my ROA and RB with 35 grs 3 Swiss was 1070. So he wasn't using Swiss for sure.

Regarding big meplats and hot BP it seems certain one-shot-stops would be greater than Sanow's results. But if one used hot BP (example Swiss 3F) with round balls I would guess those one-stop-shot percentage would also increase. The 'test' by Sanow was to see how C&B theoretically performed in the era in which these guns were used. Your test which I think is interesting is entirely different and would not necessarily invalidate what Sanow found in the context of the C&B era. Your test would however provide useful information for shooters on today.

 

[rodwha]

Went back and looked. He doesn't mention much about the conicals. He has photo of the 200 gr conical used in the .44s. Its front end profile resembles that of .45ACP Hardball. He doesn't mention powder brand. However, his ROA RB velocity was1031 with 40 grs 3F (brand not given). Twelve shots from my ROA and RB with 35 grs 3 Swiss was 1070. So he wasn't using Swiss for sure.

Regarding big meplats and hot BP it seems certain one-shot-stops would be greater than Sanow's results. But if one used hot BP (example Swiss 3F) with round balls I would guess those one-stop-shot percentage would also increase. The 'test' by Sanow was to see how C&B theoretically performed in the era in which these guns were used. Your test which I think is interesting is entirely different and would not necessarily invalidate what Sanow found in the context of the C&B era. Your test would however provide useful information for shooters on today.

Sounds like the Lee RN, I’m not sure if any others that would have been common, but it’s not like I’ve researched that.

Had the projectile makers creating RN or wide meplat conicals back then I’m sure we’d be hearing a much different story about their use compared to a ball able to take the fight out of a man.

And if we had sporting grade black powder all along we wouldn’t keep hearing stories about how anemic these are.

 

[nkbj]

Tested different nose configurations in the .41 caliber 1858. Semi-wadcutters gave good penetration. Round ball did about as good. Flat nosed wadcutters were the worst as you'd expect.

With a .44 caliber 1858 roundball and semi-wadcutters penetrated about the same.

For best penetration with a .36 I'd just stick with these ball and can bullets.

 

[Sudsy]

I need comparisons. I have heard they are equal to a .38 special??

I reload and shoot both. Depends on the load.
A .38 +P load is going to have a lot more hitting power because it's many times faster
A .38 special bug load (just enough powder not to squib) could have even less hitting power.
If the projectile are the same size then it's all about the speed.

 

[Dark Angel]

All this discussion about which gun, which caliber, roundball, conicals all come down to one thing, the gun you have on you at the time you need a gun, is always the right gun. Most times, I carry a .22 North American Arms revolver in my pocket. Why? It's small and easy to conceal. In my many years, too many years? Never had a would- be attacker laugh and tell me my gun was too small. In fact, a 'mouse-gun' as some call the .22 will stop all but the most determined attacker. Sometimes, I carry my 1911 in .4ACP when concealability isn't a concern. Then there are those times I feel nostalgic and carry my .44 c&b. How effective your chosen firearm is is determined, mostly by shot placement, and how much you practice with your chosen weapon. Then, there are other times when the 'pucker factor' I call it, makes your would-be attacker. 'pucker' when you are forced to display your weapon.