.40 cal conicals

[stevebert1]

I have a .40 cal Jack Garner gun with a 1:48 twist. This gun shoots round ball well enough, but I would like to hunt white tail with it. I'm told that the .40 ball will not penetrate bone all that well, so I'd like to shoot a heavier projectile, hence the question regarding conicals.

I've looked all over the internet for a source for .40 conicals or ball-ets, but .40 seems to be a pretty unpopular caliber in general, and conicals for it are non-existent. So my questions are:
1. Does anyone know of a source for .40 conicals?
2. Am I correct that the .40 is insufficient for whitetail? (.40 is legal in my state)
3. Why is .40 so unpopular?
4. If the answer to question 1 is no and #2 is yes, would anyone like to buy this beautiful rifle?

 

[Slowpoke]

40 calber is a terrific gun for target work because it shoots fairly flat and does beat you up when you pull the trigger. It's generally consider to small for deer because it doesn't have the knockdown power of something like a 50/54. Deer are thin skinned animals and it doesn't take much to kill them, problems arise when they run and you have to tack them down. Shot placement is important too, you have to be very familiar with what your gun will do and limit your range to 40-50 yards.
I personally don't know where you can get conicals for a 40 caliber.

 

[roundball]

I have a .40 cal Jack Garner gun with a 1:48 twist. This gun shoots round ball well enough, but I would like to hunt white tail with it. I'm told that the .40 ball will not penetrate bone all that well, so I'd like to shoot a heavier projectile, hence the question regarding conicals.

I've looked all over the internet for a source for .40 conicals or ball-ets, but .40 seems to be a pretty unpopular caliber in general, and conicals for it are non-existent. So my questions are:
1. Does anyone know of a source for .40 conicals?
2. Am I correct that the .40 is insufficient for whitetail? (.40 is legal in my state)
3. Why is .40 so unpopular?
4. If the answer to question 1 is no and #2 is yes, would anyone like to buy this beautiful rifle?

IMO, from what I've read the .40cal has surely taken deer, but the little ball strikes me personally as being too small & light for serious consideration and I for one won't intentionally go deer hunting with a .40cal ball.

Now...having said that...knowing that TC literally had a "double ball" load listed for it's .45 and .50cal MLs years ago, a double ball .40cal might tilt the scales a little, still assuming distance limitations of 40-50yds.

FWIW, I've personally tried the double ball .45cal load and they are very accurate, printing an inch apart at the 50yds I tested them...if the .40's will also do that well, and you knew you'd be hunting where the shots would be close due to limited visibility, that might be an option.

I know there are .32 and .36cal conicals...let us know if you do find any .40cal conicals.

 

While the .40 is illegal here in Louisiana for hunting, where it is legal, I believe the round ball to be too light for consistent clean kills on big game--not impossible, just not the best selection. A .40 conical on the other hand would be a better choice and likely an acceptable deer killer. I once had a .36 that a friend made a conical mold for, and it was very accurate with it. We just bored a proper hole in brass blocks with a drill bit as I recall. Of course my friend was a gunsmith.

 

[stevebert1]

40 calber is a terrific gun for target work because it shoots fairly flat and does beat you up when you pull the trigger. It's generally consider to small for deer because it doesn't have the knockdown power of something like a 50/54. Deer are thin skinned animals and it doesn't take much to kill them, problems arise when they run and you have to tack them down. Shot placement is important too, you have to be very familiar with what your gun will do and limit your range to 40-50 yards.
I personally don't know where you can get conicals for a 40 caliber.

Thank you, Slowpoke. 75 to 100 feet are probably more likely in the areas I hunt, and at those distances shot placement is no problem at all, but even still I thnk I'd like a little more wallop. Thanks.

 

[stevebert1]

Thanks Roundball. I guess I may be revealing much about my newbie status, but I had never even heard that one could "double ball" a load. Does one merely seat a second ball down on top of the first one? Both patched? Or are they rammed home at the same time with one patch(I see rods breaking). Your answer gives me hope; I'll have to investigate this more. Thanks again.

 

[stevebert1]

While the .40 is illegal here in Louisiana for hunting, where it is legal, I believe the round ball to be too light for consistent clean kills on big game--not impossible, just not the best selection. A .40 conical on the other hand would be a better choice and likely an acceptable deer killer. I once had a .36 that a friend made a conical mold for, and it was very accurate with it. We just bored a proper hole in brass blocks with a drill bit as I recall. Of course my friend was a gunsmith.

Thanks Mike. That's not a bad idea. I don't suppose you kept in touch with that friend?

 

Go to page 4 in general muzzleloading section and look for roundballs post on TC,s double ball loads.

 

[stevebert1]

Go to page 4 in general muzzleloading section and look for roundballs post on TC,s double ball loads.

Got it. Thanks, Crowhop.

 

[fw707]

Steve, I found one place that has a conical type bullet that might work in a .40 caliber. It's a .401 diameter cast bullet with a lube ring. I don't know if it's what you are looking for, but if you want me to I'll find it again and post a link for you.

 

[Rebel]

What about a semi wadcutter for a .40 S&W?

 

[roundball]

Thanks Roundball. I guess I may be revealing much about my newbie status, but I had never even heard that one could "double ball" a load. Does one merely seat a second ball down on top of the first one? Both patched? Or are they rammed home at the same time with one patch(I see rods breaking). Your answer gives me hope; I'll have to investigate this more. Thanks again.

A second individually patched ball seated down on top of the first individually patched ball.
To be clear, I don't believe double ball loads are at all commonly used...but I mentioned it at least as an alternative.

That it was legitimately posted for a few years in TC load data charts for their .45 & .50cal...and that I (and a couple others I know) have experimented with them and were very surprised by the accuracy, printing side by side.

It would certainly be unconventional in a muzzleloader, but on the other hand, buckshot is commonly used, so why not a couple balls in a muzzleloader.

I have a .40cal GM barrel that should arrive in a week or so and just for kicks plan to see how a pair of Hornady .395s do at 50yds...might just try that double ball myself on a deer stand where I know they'll be close if one comes along.

These are two pages from an older TC manual:

 

[Le Grand]

Stevebert, To get a .40 caliber conical give Ray Rapine a call at 215-679-5413. He makes a copy of the old Dixie .40 caliber conical, a good shooting bullet. I forget the number of that mould and it is not in his current catalog. But he will make it. Just ask for the .40 caliber Dixie bullet. I have one of those moulds although mine is loaned out right now. (I wish I could remember who borrowed it...) Le Grand

 

[biliff]

One note of caution about the double ball load. Some states muzzleloader hunting regs stipulate that only a single projectile may be used.

 

[stevebert1]

What about a semi wadcutter for a .40 S&W?

I thought about that. I wonder....

Is this something you have done?

Anybody have any feedback? Thanks.

 

[stevebert1]

Stevebert, To get a .40 caliber conical give Ray Rapine a call at 215-679-5413. He makes a copy of the old Dixie .40 caliber conical, a good shooting bullet. I forget the number of that mould and it is not in his current catalog. But he will make it. Just ask for the .40 caliber Dixie bullet. I have one of those moulds although mine is loaned out right now. (I wish I could remember who borrowed it...) Le Grand

Great. I'll be giving him a call. Thank you much.

 

[Ohio Rusty]

Stevebert: Give me a hollar offlist at [email protected]. I think I might have just what you are looking for in a .40 conical already cast and ready to shoot.
Ohio Rusty

 

[CrackStock]

1. Does anyone know of a source for .40 conicals?
2. Am I correct that the .40 is insufficient for whitetail? (.40 is legal in my state)
3. Why is .40 so unpopular?
4. If the answer to question 1 is no and #2 is yes, would anyone like to buy this beautiful rifle?

1. Ray Rapine is a good source for moulds

2. I know people who hunt whitetails with .22s, but I think that it is a bad idea. I have the same opinion of the .40 on whitetails

3. Unpopular? I have 3 .40 rifles and a couple of additional barrels here. It is my favorite caliber for many things such as target and small game shooting. I just believe that it is impotent for whitetails.

4. I generally do not buy finished guns. The .40 that I am finishing up is from parts ordered through Jack. His guns are pretty good if you drill the tang hole the rest of the way and thread the trigger plate for a tang bolt rather than a tang screw. He and I just disagree on this point. But I might be interested if the price is right and it is of a style that interests me.

CS

 

[TANSTAAFL]

Doesn't hurt to experiment, after following the thread for a few days, did just that..

Sometime back I had picked up an old TC Hawken with a replacement Orion .45, 1:48, 32" bbl. Today cast up some lead 225 grain RN .45 auto bullets, (poor man's Ballets?) punched out some OP cards and lubed felt wads. Lubed the single bullet grove with some Mink Oil, and tried it out with 60 grains of 3F.

Didn't really expect much, but was amazed, load proved to be a tack driver at 50 yds.

 

[roundball]

Doesn't hurt to experiment, after following the thread for a few days, did just that..

Sometime back I had picked up an old TC Hawken with a replacement Orion .45, 1:48, 32" bbl. Today cast up some lead 225 grain RN .45 auto bullets, (poor man's Ballets?) punched out some OP cards and lubed felt wads. Lubed the single bullet grove with some Mink Oil, and tried it out with 60 grains of 3F.

Didn't really expect much, but was amazed, load proved to be a tack driver at 50 yds.

Wish I had a longer barreled 1:48:...the ones I have are TC standard 28".
The accuracy doesn't surprise me...my TC .45cal x 1:48" barrels are also tack drivers with the .45cal/255grn maxi-hunters.

I rarely ever use them, but occasionally I'll carry a standard barreld rifle hunting with the maxi-hunter...devastating on deer...it's the only caliber conical I even keep around any more...just wish they made them in .40cal.