40 caliber good?

[hanshi]

I own and shoot a nice .40 Lancaster and it is accurate and efficient. I've never killed anything with it but have to agree with those who say it is an excellent small game/varmint caliber. My average shot at deer is probably around 30 yards. At this distance I don't see a problem with broadside shots or very slight angles. Yes, stay away from big bones. I use 3F in my .40 and a .390" ball with a .024" patch. 40grns of 3F yields over 1700fps and 60grns churns up close to 2000fps. Where legal it would make a nice all around, all purpose rifle where legal.

 

[Dave K]

Well if this is your question about taking coon, etc. What is better than a 40cal.? For this kind of shooting, the only thing better is a good person behind the sights. But, every gun and target needs that.

 

[rdillion]

Since when is a 40cal not legal in Arkansas?

 

[rdillion]

Whew! almost had a seizure. Just checked the Arkansas hunting regs and 40cal is legal for deer and squirrel. Regulations say at least 40cal for deer and no larger than 40cal for small game.
:grin:

 

[Curt]

For those that can use 40s for deer huntin and they are workin for you that's great .My choice is 50 or 54.Double ballin still sounds wrong to me,that could be why TC dropped it from there manual.and it voids the warranty on your barrels from Ed RAYL,Rice,and Colerain.I do know that I would think twice about buying a used rifle that I knew was double balled. We have fox squirrel around home here not many grays ,maybe they don't get along with each other.I shoot for the head so the hide can be saved and barktanned as they make good leather for pouchs and stuff. Curt

 

[MSW]

some time ago I built a .40 around a Colerain A weight barrel ... great looking gun ... shoots much better than I can point it ... I would not recommend using a forty for deer, but for just about anything smaller, I think it's the cats' meow ... complete apocalypse for soda cans, too.

if you can only have one flintlock (for some as yet undetermined and presumably inexplicable reason), you should get a 20 gauge / .62 caliber smoothie, which will do well for deer, and bigger stuff if you're brave. after that, i'd look to a forty.

one guys opinion, free and no doubt well worth the price.

 

[Curt]

Thomp Shooter I see you are from Ohio ,If your ever in Northern Ind stop in and Ill let you shoot a 40 or what ever you like and I have.We need more young folks in the shootin sports than we have but we wont get them if we fuss about which side we wear are pouchs on or what cal of gun we use .Curt 574 825 9853

 

[roundball]

My choice is 50 or 54.Double ballin still sounds wrong to me,that could be why TC dropped it from there manual.

To clarify...there is absolutely nothing wrong with a double-ball load and they cause absolutely no harm to a barrel.
A double ball load is simply a larger/heavier payload in the barrel, and still not even as large or heavy as caliber size conical offerings.

HERE'S THE CLARIFICATION PART...which is why manufacturers worry from a liability standpoint:
The "potential" exists for someone to load the double ball load improperly.

If one PRB is seated all the way down, then the other PRB is attempted to be seated down on it, in some cases the air column between to two might get compressed and when the ramrod is removed, the top PRB might be pushed back up off the bottom ball some...and by definition it then becomes a bore obstruction, possibly causing damage to the barrel when fired.

Or if someone doesn't realize they have to use a patch on the top ball to hold it snugly in place, it could move off the bottom ball while walking / handling and then also become a bore obstruction.

But done correctly, there's absolutely no problem with double ball loads at all.
They both simply need to be snugly patched business as usual, and then seated down together as a single unit.
IE: short start PRB #1, then short start PRB #2, and seat them both down at the same time.

 

[David W.]

I just went and checked, and 40 is legal in Arkansas. My bad. Maybe they changed the regs? I know I did check once, and 50 cal was minimum for deer. That, or I'm going senile!

Since when is a 40cal not legal in Arkansas?

 

[Rifleman1776]

Whew! almost had a seizure. Just checked the Arkansas hunting regs and 40cal is legal for deer and squirrel. Regulations say at least 40cal for deer and no larger than 40cal for small game.
:grin:

That, indeed, is a change. It has been a minimum .45 prb since the introduction of an ml deer season back about 1970. They did mess with the ml pistol regs time and again making those incomprehensible but rifle was .45.
Personally I don't agree that .40 is an acceptable deer caliber but if that's the law it is the law.
Of course, these days we cannot assume someone is using a prb. A proper .40 cal. ml rifle using an elongated bullet can be an effective hunting caliber.

 

[Wes/Tex]

Agree with Roundball here. Hadn't thought to mention this phenomenon when I posted above about the deformation of balls loaded on top of each other. You won't damage your rifle or smoothbore unless there's ball separation, it's just that the balls with severely flattened sides will most likely spread apart unless you're in pine cone chunking distance.

 

[Rifleman1776]

I also checked the Arkansas regs. They are definitely changed. New regs say:

Muzzleloading rifles must have a barrel at least 18 inches long and be at least .40 caliber. Magnifying sights may be used. The use of shot is not legal. Legal muzzleloaders are loaded through the muzzle and are not capable of firing a cartridge. Electronic pulse ignition muzzleloaders allowed.
Muzzleloading handguns must have a barrel at least 9 inches long and be at least .45 caliber if they shoot conical bullets (200 grains or heavier). If round balls are used, the minimum caliber is .530.
A hunter may carry a muzzleloading handgun of any caliber as backup to a muzzleloading rifle.

Aren't we all happy they allow electronic ignition on muzzle loaders? :td:

 

[TrevorAaron]

thank you Curt i will definitely take that into consideration if im ever in IN.

Thomp Shooter

 

[roundball]

What's also interesting is that if one was to use a lead substitute ball as they are required to in parts of California..., if it wasn't copper ..., it too would be a violation. :nono:

I'm afraid that's not how the law reads:

Here is the actual law in California:

"...Effective July 1, 2008, ammunition used for hunting of big-game and non-game species within the range of the California condor must use a projectile which has been certified to contain ≤ 1% lead by weight..."

http://www.dfg.ca.gov/wildlife/hunting/condor/nonlead/index.html

 

[nkbj]

What's also interesting is that if one was to use a lead substitute ball as they are required to in parts of California..., if it wasn't copper ..., it too would be a violation. :nono:

I'm afraid that's not how the law reads:

Here is the actual law in California:

"...Effective July 1, 2008, ammunition used for hunting of big-game and non-game species within the range of the California condor must use a projectile which has been certified to contain ≤ 1% lead by weight..."

http://www.dfg.ca.gov/wildlife/hunting/condor/nonlead/index.html

It's tragic really... but, hey, that's one of the funniest laws I ever heard of!!!
:rotf:

 

[nkbj]

Well, yah gotta know how to call coon.

 

[Stumpkiller]

Agree with Roundball here. Hadn't thought to mention this phenomenon when I posted above about the deformation of balls loaded on top of each other. You won't damage your rifle or smoothbore unless there's ball separation, it's just that the balls with severely flattened sides will most likely spread apart unless you're in pine cone chunking distance.

Though you should check on regulations because double ball would be illegal in NY during m/l or regular season. "Single projectile" only for large game.

I do wonder why two balls at lesser energy each would be better than one at full energy, anyway. :idunno: You're moving twice the mass with the same powder. I'd rather have one good shot placed where I wanted it. :hatsoff:

I can see a buck and ball load, with six or nine swan drops, in a smoothbore when you just want to disable or maime an enemy at close range. But for sport hunting . . .

 

[roundball]

What's also interesting is that if one was to use a lead substitute ball as they are required to in parts of California..., if it wasn't copper ..., it too would be a violation. :nono:

I'm afraid that's not how the law reads:

Here is the actual law in California:

"...Effective July 1, 2008, ammunition used for hunting of big-game and non-game species within the range of the California condor must use a projectile which has been certified to contain ≤ 1% lead by weight..."

http://www.dfg.ca.gov/wildlife/hunting/condor/nonlead/index.html

It's tragic really... but, hey, that's one of the funniest laws I ever heard of!!!
:rotf:

And there's a section that lists "approved companies"...companies "apply" to have a particular non-lead ammo offering reviewed for acceptance and use in CA...and apparently hunters can only use the approved non-lead offerings from approved companies.

 

[rdillion]

I also checked the Arkansas regs. They are definitely changed. New regs say:

Muzzleloading rifles must have a barrel at least 18 inches long and be at least .40 caliber. Magnifying sights may be used. The use of shot is not legal. Legal muzzleloaders are loaded through the muzzle and are not capable of firing a cartridge. Electronic pulse ignition muzzleloaders allowed.
Muzzleloading handguns must have a barrel at least 9 inches long and be at least .45 caliber if they shoot conical bullets (200 grains or heavier). If round balls are used, the minimum caliber is .530.
A hunter may carry a muzzleloading handgun of any caliber as backup to a muzzleloading rifle.

Aren't we all happy they allow electronic ignition on muzzle loaders? :td:

What's it use? A sparkplug? The 40cal has been legal for at least 5 years that I know of. I really have no problem killing deer with my 40cal. A 50cal is a better choice for deer but many of my deer hunts turn into squirrel hunts. :rotf: I don't know, next I'll hear a 243win is too small also. :idunno:

 

[Wes/Tex]

I can see a buck and ball load, with six or nine swan drops, in a smoothbore when you just want to disable or maime an enemy at close range. But for sport hunting . . .

That's basically the whole point of the discussion. A single ball would definitely be more accurate, and if of any appreciable size, and very effective. Buck & ball and other combinations of projectiles are just too unpredictable for successful hunting. Pure buckshot loads have proved very effective, but sadly, getting a tight pattern at usable ranges requires the use of modern components, which many traditional hunters prefer not to use. As you said, great for putting the hurt on enemy soldiers but poor for chasing Bambi through the bushes.