40 caliber good?

[roundball]

When I tested D/B loads (.40/.45/.50) the accuracy was actually very good...for example the pairs of .395 balls were figure-8 holes touching at 50yds.
Never actually hunted with them...maybe I'll try them this fall in the .45 just for the hands on experience

 

[nchawkeye]

Pretty much what I found as well...My small game load for the .40 is 30grs FFF Goex...I use a fixed measure when hunting, by putting 2 measures of powder and 2 balls I found my balls were within an inch of each other at 50 yards, elevation was dead on...

I don't know why this would be considered dangerous as long as the balls are stacked on top of each other...This is with a 13/16 barrel and when this gun was a .45 I shot as much as 90grs FFF with no ill effects...The report and kick with 2 .390 balls and 60grs of powder was much less than with a .440 ball and 90grs...

I will say, my deer rifle is my .54, while I have killed 2 deer with the .40 I would prefer a larger caliber as a designated deer rifle...

 

[Loyalist Dave]

Loyalist Dave Said:


What's also interesting is that if one was to use a lead substitute ball as they are required to in parts of California..., if it wasn't copper ..., it too would be a violation.

I'm afraid that's not how the law reads:

Here is the actual law in California:

"...Effective July 1, 2008, ammunition used for hunting of big-game and non-game species within the range of the California condor must use a projectile which has been certified to contain ≤ 1% lead by weight..."

http://www.dfg.ca.gov/wildlife/hunting/condor/nonlead/index....

OK DON'T quite understand the objection??

California law requires in some parts of that state to use a ball that has, as you pointed out, equal to or less than 1% lead content, as a substitute for lead or lead alloy. So, but the law that you cited, and by the same law that I was referencing..., one could use a projectile that was not copper, ..., let's say 100% bismuth..., and still be legal.

My point was that in Maryland, you may only use all lead, or lead alloy, or copper..., and so if you used a bismuth (or any of the substitutes that are lead free) for a muzzleloader projectile in Maryland, that would be illegal. You could use a copper projectile in Maryland and California.

LD

 

[roundball]

OK DON'T quite understand the objection??

You had said:
"...if it wasn't copper ..., it too would be a violation..."

I merely pointed out that's not the law...according to the law it would not be a violation if an approved non-lead substitute other than copper was used.

 

[roundball]

I don't know why this would be considered dangerous as long as the balls are stacked on top of each other...This is with a 13/16 barrel and when this gun was a .45 I shot as much as 90grs FFF with no ill effects...The report and kick with 2 .390 balls and 60grs of powder was much less than with a .440 ball and 90grs...

And you're 100% correct of course...I assume the resistance some have is just a trait of human beings to sometimes react oddly to things they don't understand.

Reality is that T/C's .45 and .50cal load data charts listed the same 100grns Goex 2F powder charges for those double ball loads for a couple decades...same charge (and larger) that are listed for heavier .45 & .50cal conicals.
IE: A pair of .45cal/128grn balls weigh 256grns...whereas T/C's smallest/lightest .45cal Maxi-Hunter weighs 255grns.

After testing both and finding they were nothing out of the ordinary and accurate...I then tested the .40cal the same way, even using a reduced charge by 20%, from 100grns to 80grns...worked exactly as predicted. (the reaction from some forum members was so extreme as to be humorous).

I'm planning to carry my .58cal this fall going after a buck, and if I'm lucky then I plan on switching to the .45cal to go after some Does...will try a double ball load to see how it performs.

 

[rdillion]

The way I read and understand the Arkansas regs a double ball load is not legal to deer hunt with. However I could be wrong. The way some of these regulations are written you would need to be a lawyer to understand them. :idunno: Is there anyone who makes a conical for the 40 cal?

 

[nchawkeye]

The way I read and understand the Arkansas regs a double ball load is not legal to deer hunt with. However I could be wrong. The way some of these regulations are written you would need to be a lawyer to understand them. :idunno: Is there anyone who makes a conical for the 40 cal?

Yep...I know a fellow that knows a fellow.... :grin:

 

[Snakebite]

This thread has sure has gone from using a .40cal to double balls, non-lead, copper balls, California laws and all different calibers.

Are we ff or what?

 

[roundball]

Actually, member 'oldnamvet' had a .40cal x 200grn REAL mold made last year...was nice enought make/sell a batch to me...extremely accurate and I took a good sized 8 pointer with it last fall.
Unless someone has an aversion to the occasional use of a conical in a .40cal Flintlock, it really makes the .40 a deer caliber, especially if that was the only cal someone had or wanted.

 

[nchawkeye]

This thread has sure has gone from using a .40cal to double balls, non-lead, copper balls, California laws and all different calibers.

Are we ff or what?

Yep, Claude is a tolerant fellow as long as the conversation stays civil...

It's life great!!! ??? :grin:

 

[roundball]

:grin:
Definitely has and I'll apologize for my piece of it, LOL

 

[Rifleman1776]

Is there anyone who makes a conical for the 40 cal?

Yes. There was a thread on that some months back. A search should bring it up.
I had a box full of hollow base intended for use in my wifes rifle but they were too loose to be safe IMHO. I tossed them in the melting pot.

 

With the .40 you could probabl do no better in terms of a target rifle. They make a great target rifle for sure especially when the wind is lax. But they are stuck in the middle as its lagging popularity shows. It is too big for small game in terms of meat destruction and its considered underpowered for deer even though countless deer have been mowed down with the .40 ball. I would think the 40 would be better as a smaller big game gun. Maybe whitetail, but more likely hog, peccaries, wild dogs, and turkey. It carries more energy than the 32 or the 36 so it does a better job if the shot isnt too well placed.

 

[roundball]

conical for the 40 cal?

SUMMER 2012 RANGE TEST

.40cal x 200grn R.E.A.L. conical range tests...outstanding
(.40cal x 200grn R.E.A.L. supplied courtesy of member 'oldnamvet')

EQUIPMENT
TVM Late Lancaster
GM 38” x 1:48” x .012” x .40cal round ball barrel
Chambers Deluxe Siler
Davis DST
Rifle sights zeroed at 25yds with current 40grn Goex 3F PRB squirrel load

CONICAL TESTS USING SAME SIGHTS / SAME SIGHT PICTURE
3grns Goex 4F prime
60 / 70 / 80grns Goex 2F main
.40cal Duro-Felt wad, lubed with NL1000
.40cal x 200grn R.E.A.L. conical, lubed with Oxyoke Bullet Lube

SHOOTING SITUATION
No bench, sitting down against a support like I’d be hunting, sitting against a tree

TRIALS
Started with 60grns Goex 2F and they made a dead center cloverleaf at 25yds.
Tried 60grns at 50yds and they were a few inches low.
Bumped up to 70grns and made a 1.5” group inside a 2” aim point sticker at 50yds.
Dropped back to 25yds with 70grns and they printed 1” high (top of 2” aim point sticker.
So for my equipment / methods / thick woods hunting I settled on 70grns 2F as a deer load.
(80grns 2F printed too high / not viable for existing sights and I wasn't going to change them)

CONCLUSIONS
Recoil is nothing in the Late Lancaster and the 200grn conical hits the backstop with authority.
Personally I’ve never felt the tiny .40cal x 92grn ball was a serious contender as a deer load, but there’s no doubt in my mind that this 200grn conical will get it done.
.40cal owners who might like to deer hunt with a more robust projectile in their smaller caliber round ball guns now have a REAL option.....pun intended.

FALL 2012 FIELD TEST

 

[FishDFly]

With the .40 you could probabl do no better in terms of a target rifle. They make a great target rifle for sure especially when the wind is lax. But they are stuck in the middle as its lagging popularity shows. It is too big for small game in terms of meat destruction and its considered underpowered for deer even though countless deer have been mowed down with the .40 ball. I would think the 40 would be better as a smaller big game gun. Maybe whitetail, but more likely hog, peccaries, wild dogs, and turkey. It carries more energy than the 32 or the 36 so it does a better job if the shot isnt too well placed.

Again a nice summary, but a .40 is not a pancea caliber.

Line work, a 40 will not win in the wind.

Small critters, to destructive on meat.

Deer, too small for me.

Hogs, I do not have to time to run to the house to change rifles depending if football size pigs show up or those in the 250 lb. ranges.

Shooting wild dogs will get you into jail, how do you know if it's really wild? Fluffy may not have a tag which is not required in all counties.
Landowner fight, dog owner fight and the sheriff.

40's are nice, just not the best for hunting as far as I am concerned.

 

[nchawkeye]

Lagging popularity???

You have sales figures for custom rifle builds??? Where does this info come from???

A .40 is a great caliber...The ball is plenty small for small game, my load is 30grs FFF for squirrels and I only take head shots anyway...You eating the brains???

Another advantage is a .40 can be loaded with a 3/8 ramrod...

It's also a bit better than smaller calibers once the wind kicks up a bit...This helps a bit, especially if used for groundhogs where shots are a bit further than in the squirrel woods...Great caliber for turkeys as well....

I guess it just depends upon the spin a fellow wants to put on it...

As far as wild dogs, if you own the land, you know what critters should be on there and what shouldn't...Wild dogs have always been pretty obvious to me...No collar, ribs showing and mangy...

 

[roundball]

A .40 is a great caliber...The ball is plenty small for small game, my load is 30grs FFF for squirrels and I only take head shots anyway...You eating the brains???

Another advantage is a .40 can be loaded with a 3/8 ramrod...

I guess it just depends upon the spin a fellow wants to put on it...

Yes, I’ve had my .40cal a couple seasons and have taken several squirrels with it now...not a one of them has had major meat damage...used my .45cal a couple years before the .40cal with the same results.
I did make a poor hit on one with the .45cal one time, through the mid-section and I guess that did major damage to the intestinal area, but there’s nothing in there that I or most people eat anyway so it's a non-issue as far as I'm concerned...don’t know where the hype keeps coming from.

But what I do know is this...spending a lot of time in the woods taking game with various Flintlock rifles and smoothbores proves firsthand to me what works here in these North Carolina woods.
And unless our North Carolina squirrels are some sort of super strong bionic strain compared to the rest of the country, my results have been that the .40cal is an outstanding small game/squirrel rifle with no chronic problem of major meat damage on North Carolina squirrels...and you couldn’t get me to trade it away for a dozen free .32/.36cals because of "meat damage".
:wink:

 

[Rifleman1776]

Landowner fight, dog owner fight and the sheriff.

The old-old rule for shooting feral or nusiance dogs is: "Shoot, shovel, shut-up".

 

[rdillion]

Landowner fight, dog owner fight and the sheriff.

The old-old rule for shooting feral or nusiance dogs is: "Shoot, shovel, shut-up".

:thumbsup:

 

[AWsaddles]

I too also experimented with double ball load in my 40 with similar results. 25 yards one oval hole point of aim. 50 yards in all cases both balls were touching in a sideways figure 8 pattern. With 60 gr of 3 f it was a very accurate load. The first year there was no specification of number of projectile loaded so I used it for a deer hunt in which I killed the deer pictured in my avatar. On the entrance there was only one hole, and also one exit of one ball and the other ball stopped on the off side just under the skin both diverging along to about three or four inches between the two in the meat. I have pictures of the targets and also the damage done some where in my clutter if I can find them. I dropped the load the next year because of different wording on rules and also because it was more of a challenge to load in the field as I liked to load with a good range rod to insure proper seating. Did not test past 50 yards as that is about as far as I am willing to use a 40 on deer. I have used the gun successfully for deer but it is kind of like traditional bow hunting, you are limited in your range and shot selection. It is a gun for up close and personal shots. where I hunt most of my shots are less than that anyway. If even the possibility of a long shot arises I will use a bigger caliber.