400 Yard Group

[Artificer]

That kind of range demands something with better efficiency than a PRB. A PRB at that range would have an arc like a pole vaulter. It has been done, but any little headwind variation changes the point of impact by dozens of yards.

I once went to a black powder silhouette match. The rules were open sights, black powder and patched round balls only. Well my 45 caliber did fine until the 300 yd pigs. I could hear the "ding" but the targets did not move. I switched to a 54 caliber and re -entered and was knocking the pigs down, but a gusty cross wind had come up and just hitting them was tough. I think of the 400 yd targets, I got one of 5. The only folks knocking them down reliably were shooting 58 and 62 caliber rifles.

If you go to the Lyman Black Powder hand book, and figure the velocity changes between muzzle and one hundred yards, a 40 caliber loses roughly 60% of initial velocity. A 50 caliber ball loses approx 50% of initial velocity. a 58 caliber ball loses approx 40 percent of it initial velocity and a 75 caliber loses about 25% of it's initial velocity. See the pattern? at 400 yds a 45 caliber ball has probably lost 90% of it's velocity. it is blowing around at 100 yds. hitting something other than a barn, at 400 yds is simply a prayer.

Thank you for such an informative post from actually shooting at those distances with PRB’s and with different caliber rifles. I’m sorry I could not respond earlier, but we had a power outage and then it took a day and a half to get my Internet Access to operate again.

I would be extremely interested in what types of sights were used on the guns and if they were nonadjustable Iron Sights, how far over the target did you and they have to hold to drop the balls where they needed to hit? What range were the rifles originally sighted in for? I would also be interested in barrel length of the rifles as the shorter the length, the less one would have to hold the front sight high to get them to drop where needed.

Any information you could provide would be very much appreciated.

Gus

 

[cannonball1]

When I got up this morning weather.com said that the wind at our valley was calm at 10:00 and 1 mile an hour at 11:00. It was 29 degrees when I got there and setup the bench rest. I then set the target at 500 yards. Couldn't figure out why there was no one else there :wink: I elevated the malcom scope and proceeded to shoot a five shots with a group of 18 1/2". Three of the shots were a 11" group with two shots included in this group of 18 1/2" This is my first attempt at 500 and I don't see that I will be able to better, but who knows. Conditions were as good for shooting as I have seen.

 

[cannonball1]

Would have shot more in the group, but that was the end of the buffalo bullets. I did shoot some wad cutters that someone had given me, but they were so loose they didn't group very well.

 

[fleener]

Cannonball

you just need to load that thing up and head to Oakridge TN for Rick Webers 200, 300, 600 and 1,000 yard match in March.

Come shoot with us. No class for scoped rifles, but I bet Rick would let you shoot with us.

fleener

 

[cannonball1]

Fleener, Your type of shooting vs my type of shooting are completely different. I have a 6 x scope and a bench. I think the gun with the 24" twist is doing pretty well. I really would like a comparison, but apparently the readers on this realm are not bench shooters.

If my new 16" twist barrel is fairly accurate, I will probably put a peep sight on this (24"T) barrel. Never tried a peep before other than the cheap ones used on a 22.

 

[cannonball1]

That's 18" twist -my bad. As if it mattered.

 

[Rifleman1776]

When you’re shooting a .45 cal 530-560gr bullet at 1000 yards, with the high arching parabolic trajectory, the bullet is dropping at a steep angle. This effectively reduces the ”˜visible area’ of the target. Add in changeable head/tail winds, and it’s ever so easy to drop shots short or send them just over the target.

David

Pure nonsense. The guys on TV do it all the time. They can drop a mountain goat, shooting offhand in gale force winds from one mountain range to another. Ye need practice. :wink: :rotf:

 

[tenngun]

Practice is good and needed, but I never made a long shot like that unless I used silk :haha:

 

[Zonie]

Practice is good and needed, but I never made a long shot like that unless I used silk :haha:

Please remember, our forum is a "family" place.

Mentioning of your undergarments material, while interesting is rather out of place here.

:grin:

 

[fleener]

does not mean that you can not come to Oakridge, enjoy yourself, meet some new friends, share in your favorite drink, show off you gun and tell lies like the rest of us.

Fleener

 

[cannonball1]

Do you know how far that is from south central Utah by wagon train? 111 days to be exact and after I got there you would think I was Santa with my lead sled and thick glasses on my gun. Even if you did let me shoot I would be disqualified and sent home because I didn't understand Eastern rules.

Have to have you out here for the Mountain Man Run. They wouldn't even let me in it. Have to wear buckskins and shoot roundballs with a 1 in 60 twist. A group of 6" at 100 yards might get you in the finals. One thing we do have is a lot of government land, so you could set your teepee most anywhere. :grin:

 

[ResearchPress]

The guys on TV do it all the time.... Ye need practice.

Armchair shooting isn’t my sport thanks.... Enjoyed a competition win at 1200 yards muzzle loading this summer so practice going well.

David

 

[cannonball1]

The guys on TV do it all the time.... Ye need practice.

Armchair shooting isn’t my sport thanks.... Enjoyed a competition win at 1200 yards muzzle loading this summer so practice going well.

David

David how big is the outer bullseye of the target? How many shots did you take and how many in the bullseye did it take to win at 1200 yards?

 

[ResearchPress]

The same target is used from 800 to 1200 yards. It is 118 inches wide x 70 inches high. Aiming mark is 48 inch diameter and the bull (which scores 5) is 24 inch diameter. Scores are 5, 4, 3, 2, 1. By the time you’re out at 1200 the aiming mark looks pretty small!

It's not so much how many bull's-eyes as keeping your shots on target and getting points! I had 11 shots on target and 4 misses for the 15 shots. On the day I just coped better than others with the changeable wind and light conditions, and got the highest score.

David

 

[cannonball1]

That is fantastic. I am sure you were using a peep sight?

 

[ResearchPress]

Yes, just aperture sights - no scopes.

Shooting prone with a two point sling and/or wrist rest, or from the back position. No x-sticks or other support for the rifle permitted.

David

 

[cannonball1]

To all of you LRM Shooters out there, what is the best bang for the buck on peep sights for shooting up to 500 yards? The new barrel I have will have the scope on it, but I want to install a peep on the gun I have been shooting.

 

[Coot]

Montana Vintage Arms makes great (but not inexpensive) tang mounted peep sights specifically for long range shooting.

 

[TFoley]

Copy that. I bought a set of their Creedmoor precision long-range mounts last year for a Malcolm-style scope. They were, without doubt, the very finest precision mounts I've ever seen - real mechanical works of art. You get what you pay for.

I think, also, that it's worth explaining that Mr Minshall is not using what are generally called peep sights, after the style of the Williams or Lyman receiver sight often seen on Winchester-style underlever action rifles or carbines, but a long-range tang sight like this - https://search.aol.co.uk/aol/image?q=long+range+tang+sight&s_it=searchtabs&v_t=aoluk-homePage50&s_chn=hp&page=2&oreq=fc85715dab5f4c8c9985ce98b148b620

tac

 

[TFoley]

Supporting documentation for that assertion would be really appreciated.

I have also shot on the same range [Stickledown/Bisley] as Mr Minshall, and can vouch from first-hand experience that the closing angle of a similar bullet [we all shoot bullets weighing between 500 and 560-ish gr] seems to be around 40 degrees or so.

According to THIS program - http://www.shooterscalculator.com/...t/s&lbl=[Chart+Label]&submitst=+Create+Chart+

- a 500gr bullet starting out at a respectable 1100 fps will have a drop of 175 FEET at 1000 yards.

tac